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WA State Election 2017

Discuss whatever you like, whenever you like, however you like

Moderators: Streaker, Mr Q

Who will you be voting for?

Liberal
6
27%
Labour
6
27%
Green
2
9%
One Nation
6
27%
Nationals
1
5%
Shooters, Fishers, Idiots
1
5%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 22

Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby WCE06 on Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:58 am

Fat Side wrote:
farmer joe wrote:If you want an additional reason not to vote for The Greens here it is. They are clowns. Lets ban the US president...and hang our hat, and sell our souls, completely to China.
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/02 ... rump-visa/


We don't have a soul. We gave it to the yanks generations ago.


When they stopped us being invaded by Japan?
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby jourgo on Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:00 am

farmer joe wrote:If you want an additional reason not to vote for The Greens here it is. They are clowns. Lets ban the US president...and hang our hat, and sell our souls, completely to China.
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/02 ... rump-visa/


Nobody does poncing tokenism like The Australian Greens


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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Fat Side on Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:15 pm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-09/w ... ys/8255364

The Department's pre-election budget update forecast total public sector debt would continue to grow over the forward estimates, reaching $41.1 billion by mid-2020.


The light in the surplus tunnel has officially been turned off. The second biggest state Government expenditure is interest on debt. WA is paying higher interest rates to repay debt than anywhere else in the country. Who will repay the debt? The taxpayer!

What an absolute shambles.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby WCE06 on Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:17 pm

In better news the Burns Beach electorate is marginal (as is Joondalup) and on the end of some pork barrelling. The new marina should be pretty bloody cool..
Last edited by WCE06 on Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Fat Side on Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:22 pm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-09/w ... ed/8252358

WA's NFPS debt is expected to be $36.6 billion by the end of the financial year. Nine years earlier, just before the Barnett Government came to office, that figure was just $4.96 billion.


Under this Government, WA has become a fiscal basket case. Proportionately, our debt is the biggest in the country (including the Commonwealth). Barnett and Nahan have some nerve seeking re-election. They should both resign..NOW!
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:24 am

Fat Side wrote:Barnett and Nahan have some nerve seeking re-election. They should both resign..NOW!


But then the Libs might win and we would not want that; the State would never recover from a third term of their mismanagement.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby farmer joe on Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:58 am

Fat Side wrote:http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-09/wa-state-debt-and-plans-to-address-it-explained/8252358

WA's NFPS debt is expected to be $36.6 billion by the end of the financial year. Nine years earlier, just before the Barnett Government came to office, that figure was just $4.96 billion.


Under this Government, WA has become a fiscal basket case. Proportionately, our debt is the biggest in the country (including the Commonwealth). Barnett and Nahan have some nerve seeking re-election. They should both resign..NOW!

Sell Freo Port and the power lines and the problem is solved.
I am glad you are not running the state. We would be living in the 1960's with 1960's infrastructure. The only mis-management was the stupid decision to make our Public Service the highest paid in Australia. Structurally that has cooked the budget for generations. The scary bit is the ALP would have given them more.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby WCE06 on Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:09 am

I'll be voting to keep the lights on thanks. The mind boggles at the stupidity of WA Labor promising to go 50% renewables. Despite us being a small grid with no connections to the rest of Australia. South Australia cant even maintain lights on with 40% renewables and two interconnections...
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Mr Q on Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:51 pm

WCE06 wrote:I'll be voting to keep the lights on thanks. The mind boggles at the stupidity of WA Labor promising to go 50% renewables. Despite us being a small grid with no connections to the rest of Australia. South Australia cant even maintain lights on with 40% renewables and two interconnections...


And NSW can't either, with even more interconnectors, and the lowest level of renewables in the country.

The problem in both states is exactly the same - not the mix of power sources, but a sudden massive uptick in demand caused by extreme high temperatures.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Fat Side on Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:11 pm

WCE06 wrote:I'll be voting to keep the lights on thanks. The mind boggles at the stupidity of WA Labor promising to go 50% renewables. Despite us being a small grid with no connections to the rest of Australia. South Australia cant even maintain lights on with 40% renewables and two interconnections...


Keeping the lights on sounds great. Problem is nobody will have the money to pay for power. This debt mountain will need to be paid back by all of us.

WCE06 wrote:It is really a choice of Labor's Spendathon which has created a local credit squeeze, preventing prospective home builders and small business accessing credit against The Liberal's more frugal government, which will enable home builders and small business to access credit and facilitate growth in the economy. A choice of wasteful Govevernment spending against private spending....


Prior to the 2010 Federal election you had this to say about 'Labor's Spendathon'. Given your passion for government spending at the time, I'm surprised you haven't raised Barnett's 'Spendathon'. Or expressed disappointment that the Barnett Liberal Government hasn't reflected '...more frugal government.' Barnett took Government with around $3billion in debt and we are staring at $41billion +, two reductions in our previous AAA credit rating costing the state $1.2billion a year in interest payments.

I guess that anything the '...more frugal...' Liberals do can be defended or indeed ignored.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Fat Side on Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:46 pm

farmer joe wrote:
Fat Side wrote:http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-09/wa-state-debt-and-plans-to-address-it-explained/8252358

WA's NFPS debt is expected to be $36.6 billion by the end of the financial year. Nine years earlier, just before the Barnett Government came to office, that figure was just $4.96 billion.


Under this Government, WA has become a fiscal basket case. Proportionately, our debt is the biggest in the country (including the Commonwealth). Barnett and Nahan have some nerve seeking re-election. They should both resign..NOW!

Sell Freo Port and the power lines and the problem is solved.
I am glad you are not running the state. We would be living in the 1960's with 1960's infrastructure. The only mis-management was the stupid decision to make our Public Service the highest paid in Australia. Structurally that has cooked the budget for generations. The scary bit is the ALP would have given them more.


Yep. Everything is rosy. Just ask the under-treasurer. I didn't realise the public service received $38billion in pay rises since 2008. Surely you're not saying that our current debt fiasco is reflective of responsible economic management? If you believe it is, then what debt figure would you consider not responsible? I'm sure I can answer that....the same debt delivered by a Labor Government.

Barnett does not have answers to the problem. They have spent an additional $1.1billion since December. FMD

This debt debacle has set this state back a generation. If Barnett gets beck in, we can add another generation to that.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:48 pm

farmer joe wrote:The scary bit is the ALP would have given them more.


Unfounded speculation. The previous Labor Governments took a hammering in the West Australian and local talk back stations for taking a harder line on pay negotiations with the public sector unions. Barnett just rolled over on the first ambit claims and made them a non issue; apart from the debt they have burdened us with.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby farmer joe on Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:30 pm

Fat Side wrote:Yep. Everything is rosy. Just ask the under-treasurer. I didn't realise the public service received $38billion in pay rises since 2008. Surely you're not saying that our current debt fiasco is reflective of responsible economic management? If you believe it is, then what debt figure would you consider not responsible? I'm sure I can answer that....the same debt delivered by a Labor Government.

Barnett does not have answers to the problem. They have spent an additional $1.1billion since December. FMD

This debt debacle has set this state back a generation. If Barnett gets beck in, we can add another generation to that.

For a "right winger" I am bit more relaxed about debt than some. The boom happened and had to be catered for. Not doing anything would have seen a complete debacle occur. This state had seen underfunding on infrastructure spending (by both sides) for many, many years. Hence the need to build hospitals, improve transport systems, build the stadium and arena, develop the river foreshore and spend the money that has been spent in the regions. That means debt...and the infrastructure spend has occurred when it should of. When the boom was coming off. Imagine employment in this state if it hadn't occurred?
How much is too much? I am not sure but I would be selling down some of the assets that other states have. That is why they have lower debts.
FBPO is right in that Barnett rolled over on PS wages when he shouldnt have (I do not buy the fact the ALP wouldnt have). That is the biggest issue facing us. The ongoing structural spend is going to kill us in the medium term. Infrastructure spending is a one time spend on assets we as a state need. Wages are ongoing and should be contained where ever possible. Do I think we have the highest quality health, education and police services in the country? No. But given how much we spend we should.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby MrWoollie on Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:59 pm

Mr Q wrote:
WCE06 wrote:I'll be voting to keep the lights on thanks. The mind boggles at the stupidity of WA Labor promising to go 50% renewables. Despite us being a small grid with no connections to the rest of Australia. South Australia cant even maintain lights on with 40% renewables and two interconnections...


And NSW can't either, with even more interconnectors, and the lowest level of renewables in the country.

The problem in both states is exactly the same - not the mix of power sources, but a sudden massive uptick in demand caused by extreme high temperatures.

Actually electric power consumption per capita in Australia rose steadily until 2002 and has actually remained steady or even dropped a bit since then. 10813 kWh in 2002, 10133 kWh in 2013.
During the same period population went from 19.65M to 23.13M, nearly 20% more. i.e. total electrical demand nearly 20% more due to population increase, not usage per head.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG. ... cations=AU

The problem appears to be that with a growing population and the constant pressure to turn off those nasty coal burning power stations there has been virtually no investment in non-renewable power stations and none in major base load ones. With a extra 4Mill (20%) population in just over a decade the old infrastructure cannot keep up. There used to be a good margin between capacity and demand (excess capacity). That doesn't exist anymore.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Hamburger on Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:02 pm

WCE06 wrote:I'll be voting to keep the lights on thanks. The mind boggles at the stupidity of WA Labor promising to go 50% renewables. Despite us being a small grid with no connections to the rest of Australia. South Australia cant even maintain lights on with 40% renewables and two interconnections...


Everything I am reading about the power 'shortages' in SA suggests it is the result of the power generators gaming the system rather than an actual lack of capacity.

As I understand it, there is an agency AEMO which acts as a broker for the public in order to get the best price for the power required to meet demand forecasts.
Sometimes they get the demand forecast wrong as in the latest outage which was caused by an inability to get the spare capacity turned on in time to meet the increased demand.
Key points are that there were 3 thermal electricity generators that had the capacity but were not available on that date because their owners chose not to respond to an earlier call by AEMO for bids to supply even the forecast demand for power. Bear in mind that whenever AEMO calls for bids there is an expectation all round that the extra power required will be more (much more) expensive per unit than the supply of base load power.

When AEMO realised more power than it had forecast was required they directed one of those 3 thermal generators to turn on (they have that authority). AEMO was told it would take 4 hours to power up by which time the demand had passed.

Interestingly an independent energy economics consultant had this to say about this latest event in SA and the previous outage....

“When the renewables are not operating flat out or making enough electricity, the fossil fuel generators have the market to themselves. And as we know from studies that I’ve done from 2008 onwards they can and do corner the market,” Mountain said.

After the July price spikes, Mountain’s analysis showed electricity generators were withholding supply in order to push up prices. “This is just classical market cornering,” he said. “If you decrease your output by half but as a consequence increase your price by a factor of ten, you’re better off decreasing your output.”

Seems to me the problem is the setting of competition for the supply of power has created a situation where the companies that supply can hold back on supply in order to push prices much higher.
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