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Most Overrated Team of 2018

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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Tue May 29, 2018 4:52 pm

DALBY wrote:
Mr Q wrote:
DALBY wrote:Another 50 million down the drain by the AFL. :roll:


I'd rather be propping up a team that might develop the game for the heathens of NSW (or Qld) than continue to prop up North, the Dogs, the Saints etc in Melbourne's oversaturated market.

I'd most like to see one of the Melbourne clubs shifted over Bass Strait to become a full time Tasmanian team.


A Tasmania team or even a Northern Territory team makes more sense to me too. Gold Coast and GWS are just money pits.


Why? What growth is possible there? End of the day Gold Coast and GWS were created to try and fight against rugby and try to bring talent to AFL in an otherwise Rugby dominant area. Tassie and NT are already AFL states, we aren't going to see a sudden rise in players because we have teams there, nor a rise in viewers via TV or at games. We can put teams in tasmania or NT at any point in time and get the same numbers at the ground in ten years whether the team starts now or 9 years time. It is a low risk, low reward situation. Gold Coast and GWS are High risk and high reward. Yes they probably will fall flat and need propping up, but if they convert 1 in 100 rugby followers to AFL, it is more than it would do in Tasmania or NT where they already would be following AFL anyways.

End of the day they really should have forced 2 Melbourne basket cases to move. That would have produced something much more successful, at least they could have had an existing supporter base to build off rather than creating something from new (and considering at the time Norf were asking for handouts every other week and already had home games in carrara, they should have been told to piss off up there)
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby Peter_Melesso_Fanclub on Tue May 29, 2018 8:30 pm

Mr Q wrote:
DALBY wrote:A Tasmania team or even a Northern Territory team makes more sense to me too. Gold Coast and GWS are just money pits.


I'd rather a money pit that exposes more people to our great game than one that props up too many Victorian teams.


Ditto. I'd love to have a team in Tassie too, but the economics just don't seem to stack up at the moment. NT would be the same problem but even more extreme ... just not enough people to make it viable.

When the Bears were struggling along, they got a great boost (including a few premierships) as a result of "merging" with a Victorian club that was going down the gurgler. I'd really love something similar to happen with the Suns & Giants, because clearly there are too many Melbourne-based clubs. There is absolutely no excuse for a club in AFL Central to need long-term propping up.
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed May 30, 2018 1:16 am

Peter_Melesso_Fanclub wrote:
Mr Q wrote:I'd rather a money pit that exposes more people to our great game than one that props up too many Victorian teams.


Ditto. I'd love to have a team in Tassie too, but the economics just don't seem to stack up at the moment. NT would be the same problem but even more extreme ... just not enough people to make it viable.

When the Bears were struggling along, they got a great boost (including a few premierships) as a result of "merging" with a Victorian club that was going down the gurgler. I'd really love something similar to happen with the Suns & Giants, because clearly there are too many Melbourne-based clubs. There is absolutely no excuse for a club in AFL Central to need long-term propping up.


I support having two teams in major States like WA, SA, NSW and Qld. I also support having up to six teams in the beggar state of Victoria; because then they could stop being beggars and support the teams they had. Victoria will never be able to support ten teams and I'm sick of their hand out begging whinging mentality. The bankrupt Victorian teams should stop being propped up, allowed to fail or merge or go back to the VFL and have the money diverted to more worthy causes like a team in Tasmania; one that Tasmania owns, not one that is imported.
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby Fat Side on Wed May 30, 2018 7:20 am

farmer joe wrote:
Fat Side wrote:
Mr Q wrote:
I'd rather a money pit that exposes more people to our great game than one that props up too many Victorian teams.


Absolutely. 7000 at the North/GWS game in Hobart will not justify a team in an AFL playing state.

Lets be realistic though. If the AFL was truly intent on building the game it would be Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon or Geelong playing North in Tassie. Not GWS with their 3 supporters. Any of the big victorian clubs and the crowd is way more than 7000.


The problem isn't GWS and Gold Coast. The problem is too many teams in Victoria. Victoria, WA, SA and Tasmania are traditional aussie rules states. Qld and NSW aren't, but placing teams there gives us an opportunity to grow the game. There are players in Qld and NSW that would have been lost to AFL had there not been teams in those states. Isaac Heeney is one that comes to mind.

I expect that teams from Qld/NSW would need some assistance to get going and keep going. The elephant in the room is that we have teams in Melbourne that receive assistance. When you think about it, it's laughable if the biggest AFL state has teams that cannot survive without assistance. It is because there are too many of them. If GWS, BL and GC are losing money and should get the chop, why are we forking out to save clubs in Melbourne that the AFL refuses to let slide? North, Melbourne, St Kilda, WB are a few that largely run at a loss or a small profit after handouts. It's window dressing and the AFL are good at slipping cash to them under the guise of equalisation etc to enable them to post a small profit and the AFL can say they are viable.

A Tasmanian team is not going to grow the game and I don't believe would have sufficient following to justify a new club.

To my mind the NSW/Qld teams stay and at least two Melbourne teams are cut loose (maybe another sent to Tasmania).
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby Mr Q on Wed May 30, 2018 9:29 am

Fat Side wrote:A Tasmanian team is not going to grow the game and I don't believe would have sufficient following to justify a new club.


There is half a million people in Tassie, and the reason for a team there isn't growth, but maintenance. It's a traditional footy state, but the game is struggling there - a proper local team could help.

For mine, I'd base it in Hobart, with five home games there, five in Launceston, and one in either Devonport or Burnie each year (or maybe four in Launceston and one in each of Burnie/Devonport).
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby DALBY on Wed May 30, 2018 9:43 am

Rugby is dominated in NSW and QLD, Booka, I understand there is not many people in Tassie or Northern territory, but trying to convince people to switch codes is a little naive. It doesn't happen overnight. Where as Tasmania and Northern territory don't have teams yet. Why two teams in Nsw or Qld was done is the reason why I believe the money could be better used in the states. I guess we'll never know now. Carry on, though. I like this thread, all are making good points.
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby Fat Side on Wed May 30, 2018 10:52 am

Mr Q wrote:
Fat Side wrote:A Tasmanian team is not going to grow the game and I don't believe would have sufficient following to justify a new club.


There is half a million people in Tassie, and the reason for a team there isn't growth, but maintenance. It's a traditional footy state, but the game is struggling there - a proper local team could help.

For mine, I'd base it in Hobart, with five home games there, five in Launceston, and one in either Devonport or Burnie each year (or maybe four in Launceston and one in each of Burnie/Devonport).


I don't mind the concept of a Tassie club, but it needs to be a relocated Victorian club or replacing a Victorian club that has been cut loose.
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby Peter_Melesso_Fanclub on Wed May 30, 2018 2:33 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Mr Q wrote:
Fat Side wrote:A Tasmanian team is not going to grow the game and I don't believe would have sufficient following to justify a new club.


There is half a million people in Tassie, and the reason for a team there isn't growth, but maintenance. It's a traditional footy state, but the game is struggling there - a proper local team could help.

For mine, I'd base it in Hobart, with five home games there, five in Launceston, and one in either Devonport or Burnie each year (or maybe four in Launceston and one in each of Burnie/Devonport).


I don't mind the concept of a Tassie club, but it needs to be a relocated Victorian club or replacing a Victorian club that has been cut loose.


Playing Devil's advocate though, would Tasmanians instantly embrace the carcass of a club that 90% of them probably disliked or had no love for up to that point? If you were a Tasmanian footy fan, and let's say you've been following the Hawks or Kangaroos up to now, and it is announced that Carlton are going to be reborn as the Tassie Blues, would you jump straight on board? I'm guessing (based on nothing in particular) that more people would want to sign up for an expansion club than an existing dying one that already has a history.
Ultimately I don't see there being a 100% Tassie team anyway, but if there is, there's certainly no neat way to make it happen such that they are both warmly welcomed by all and reasonably competitive from the start.
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby MrWoollie on Wed May 30, 2018 3:01 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Mr Q wrote:
Fat Side wrote:A Tasmanian team is not going to grow the game and I don't believe would have sufficient following to justify a new club.


There is half a million people in Tassie, and the reason for a team there isn't growth, but maintenance. It's a traditional footy state, but the game is struggling there - a proper local team could help.

For mine, I'd base it in Hobart, with five home games there, five in Launceston, and one in either Devonport or Burnie each year (or maybe four in Launceston and one in each of Burnie/Devonport).


I don't mind the concept of a Tassie club, but it needs to be a relocated Victorian club or replacing a Victorian club that has been cut loose.

Saved me some typing FS. Under those conditions... Yes.

I can also see Peter M's Fanclub point about Tassie supporters generally already have a team they support (usually Hawks or Richmond because of the local greats (Hudson/Roach) connection) so it could be difficult to get someone who supports Richmond to wear blue and white to games. I think it might have to be a folded team with a whole new jumper etc.
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby Mr Q on Wed May 30, 2018 3:53 pm

Peter_Melesso_Fanclub wrote:Playing Devil's advocate though, would Tasmanians instantly embrace the carcass of a club that 90% of them probably disliked or had no love for up to that point? If you were a Tasmanian footy fan, and let's say you've been following the Hawks or Kangaroos up to now, and it is announced that Carlton are going to be reborn as the Tassie Blues, would you jump straight on board? I'm guessing (based on nothing in particular) that more people would want to sign up for an expansion club than an existing dying one that already has a history.
Ultimately I don't see there being a 100% Tassie team anyway, but if there is, there's certainly no neat way to make it happen such that they are both warmly welcomed by all and reasonably competitive from the start.


It might take a decade or two of hard sell (and money) to get it across the line in Tassie, but a relocated club would eventually work. And I think enough Tasmanians would jump on the club that actually gives them a Tassie team to keep it going for a while. Once the kids now become adults, it will be their team.

- It has to be called Tasmania (certainly not North Melbourne or St Kilda etc - and not Hobart or "Southern" something). Go in the whole hog.
- The AFL has to support it financially for as long as it takes. They seem to be prepared to do that in GC and GWS, so no biggie.
- I'd offer salary cap concessions for five years or so to help get the players to accept the move (but paid as a percent of their base, not used as the club sees fit)

If my conference idea was to go ahead, I'd put this team in with a couple of the big Melbourne clubs to get it a good start - Collingwood and one other.

If a Vic club was to actually fold (not going to happen in the current environment of money pouring into Victoria), then yeah, I'd get it re-formed as a new club in Tassie with new colours etc.
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby Peter_Melesso_Fanclub on Wed May 30, 2018 4:16 pm

Mr Q wrote:
Peter_Melesso_Fanclub wrote:Playing Devil's advocate though, would Tasmanians instantly embrace the carcass of a club that 90% of them probably disliked or had no love for up to that point? If you were a Tasmanian footy fan, and let's say you've been following the Hawks or Kangaroos up to now, and it is announced that Carlton are going to be reborn as the Tassie Blues, would you jump straight on board? I'm guessing (based on nothing in particular) that more people would want to sign up for an expansion club than an existing dying one that already has a history.
Ultimately I don't see there being a 100% Tassie team anyway, but if there is, there's certainly no neat way to make it happen such that they are both warmly welcomed by all and reasonably competitive from the start.


It might take a decade or two of hard sell (and money) to get it across the line in Tassie, but a relocated club would eventually work. And I think enough Tasmanians would jump on the club that actually gives them a Tassie team to keep it going for a while. Once the kids now become adults, it will be their team.

- It has to be called Tasmania (certainly not North Melbourne or St Kilda etc - and not Hobart or "Southern" something). Go in the whole hog.
- The AFL has to support it financially for as long as it takes. They seem to be prepared to do that in GC and GWS, so no biggie.
- I'd offer salary cap concessions for five years or so to help get the players to accept the move (but paid as a percent of their base, not used as the club sees fit)

If my conference idea was to go ahead, I'd put this team in with a couple of the big Melbourne clubs to get it a good start - Collingwood and one other.

If a Vic club was to actually fold (not going to happen in the current environment of money pouring into Victoria), then yeah, I'd get it re-formed as a new club in Tassie with new colours etc.


Looking at it over the long term, yes I agree that initial lack of competitiveness (is that a word?) isn't such an issue.
But long term is also where my main issue is.

With GWS, you throw money at the problem hoping the team will eventually catch on. If it does, you've got a massive population and corporate presence to make it profitable.
With Tassie though ... I don't really see it. A modern day AFL team is an expensive business. They've been talking for years about getting a team back into the NBL and they can't make that stack up, and the AFL is an order of magnitude larger in terms of player salaries & staff needed.

Hopefully I am wrong because I'd love to see a Tassie team in the league one day.
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Wed May 30, 2018 9:08 pm

DALBY wrote:Rugby is dominated in NSW and QLD, Booka, I understand there is not many people in Tassie or Northern territory, but trying to convince people to switch codes is a little naive. It doesn't happen overnight. Where as Tasmania and Northern territory don't have teams yet. Why two teams in Nsw or Qld was done is the reason why I believe the money could be better used in the states. I guess we'll never know now. Carry on, though. I like this thread, all are making good points.


That's the point though, it doesn't happen overnight. We need to be in there early so that we can get 2 kids this year, 3 kids next year, 5 kids the year after, because had we waited, we would be further behind. And it isn't a case of when Freo were brought in and its 2 teams playing out of the same venue Drawing from the same population. Gold Coast is in a different area with its own sizeable population, so too with GWS. It is a long term plan to develop and hopefully steal talent away from the other codes. We aren't going to become the main sport in Queensland or NSW within a decade, we probably never will be, but when those teams started we would have had bugger all of the talented juniors coming to footy, say maybe 10% of the population choosing Footy, if we keep chipping away and improving that each year then it is a win for AFL because that is less Rugby stars, Less soccer actors, less cricketers getting automatic baggy greens and more players funnelled into the AFL system.
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Wed May 30, 2018 9:19 pm

Mr Q wrote:
Peter_Melesso_Fanclub wrote:Playing Devil's advocate though, would Tasmanians instantly embrace the carcass of a club that 90% of them probably disliked or had no love for up to that point? If you were a Tasmanian footy fan, and let's say you've been following the Hawks or Kangaroos up to now, and it is announced that Carlton are going to be reborn as the Tassie Blues, would you jump straight on board? I'm guessing (based on nothing in particular) that more people would want to sign up for an expansion club than an existing dying one that already has a history.
Ultimately I don't see there being a 100% Tassie team anyway, but if there is, there's certainly no neat way to make it happen such that they are both warmly welcomed by all and reasonably competitive from the start.


It might take a decade or two of hard sell (and money) to get it across the line in Tassie, but a relocated club would eventually work. And I think enough Tasmanians would jump on the club that actually gives them a Tassie team to keep it going for a while. Once the kids now become adults, it will be their team.

- It has to be called Tasmania (certainly not North Melbourne or St Kilda etc - and not Hobart or "Southern" something). Go in the whole hog.
- The AFL has to support it financially for as long as it takes. They seem to be prepared to do that in GC and GWS, so no biggie.
- I'd offer salary cap concessions for five years or so to help get the players to accept the move (but paid as a percent of their base, not used as the club sees fit)

If my conference idea was to go ahead, I'd put this team in with a couple of the big Melbourne clubs to get it a good start - Collingwood and one other.

If a Vic club was to actually fold (not going to happen in the current environment of money pouring into Victoria), then yeah, I'd get it re-formed as a new club in Tassie with new colours etc.


I'd add in that the team should be playing games there trying to build a membership base prior to a fold/merge. That is what was so frustrating about Gold Coast. They already had Kangaroos playing games up that way, getting a bit of a following. Had Norf been relocated there, those people who were going to see them in their sold matches would have already had a tie to the club, there would be kids who started following them coz they saw them live. It might not have been much but it is better than starting from scratch and hoping the hipsters that will like anything anyone else doesn't will keep them afloat.

I agree though that the "build it and they will come" approach would work in Tasmania, it will be much like over here where Freo's membership increased big time once we could no longer sell memberships. People want to go and see AFL being played so they will go. Perhaps they wont start out as fans of the Taswegian Kangablues (be great to get rid of Norf AND Carlton in one swing) but they will go because hey its a match. They will start to make it a regular occurence, little johnny will get attached to them, then well you can't go and support a different team than little Johnny, he'll have a shit-fit otherwise so they become fans and maybe even members.

It will probably only end up netting about a 20k crowd once they are fully established, but if they play it in a stadium where the capacity is that or even 30k, it becomes a lot more profitable than having Kangas put 10k bums on the MCG seats (and look a lot less silly)
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby domo_the_eagle on Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:56 pm

Surprise surprise, the dees come up against a top 10 team and fold.

Their past 6 games have been against bottom 6 teams
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Re: Most Overrated Team of 2018

Postby sydney eagle on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:29 am

Could the AFL persuade a team like North Melbourne to move to Tasmania permanently, change their name to "Tassie Kangaroos" etc ? I'd even be in favor of giving them a few draft concessions, say one local player per year as a pre draft selection for the first five or six years they were down there or perhaps an academy like the ones Sydney, Gold Coast etc have.
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