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The "state of the game"

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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:28 pm

I know stricter rules regarding free kicks hasn't worked in the past to improve the game, but what if they got stricter on illegal disposal/holding the ball? Any player who takes possession but doesn't get away a legal handball or kick but the ball comes out is penalised. Will stop this slow moving scrum we generally see.
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby MrWoollie on Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:09 pm

WCE Booka 89 wrote:I know stricter rules regarding free kicks hasn't worked in the past to improve the game, but what if they got stricter on illegal disposal/holding the ball? Any player who takes possession but doesn't get away a legal handball or kick but the ball comes out is penalised. Will stop this slow moving scrum we generally see.

I agree that there really needs to be a crackdown on blatantly illegal disposal. Too often you see things that are either a throw or an at best really dodgy handball or a blatant dropping the ball go unpunished.
However, I'm always reluctant to reward the guy who tackles rather than the guy who works harder to actually gain possession.
A heavy crackdown on disposal, any disposal or failure to handpass/kick on taking the ball will encourage guys to stay off the ball and just tackle, tackle, tackle. If the reward favours the tackler then that's what guys will do. And that will defeat the purpose of opening up the game.
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:00 pm

MrWoollie wrote:
WCE Booka 89 wrote:I know stricter rules regarding free kicks hasn't worked in the past to improve the game, but what if they got stricter on illegal disposal/holding the ball? Any player who takes possession but doesn't get away a legal handball or kick but the ball comes out is penalised. Will stop this slow moving scrum we generally see.

I agree that there really needs to be a crackdown on blatantly illegal disposal. Too often you see things that are either a throw or an at best really dodgy handball or a blatant dropping the ball go unpunished.
However, I'm always reluctant to reward the guy who tackles rather than the guy who works harder to actually gain possession.
A heavy crackdown on disposal, any disposal or failure to handpass/kick on taking the ball will encourage guys to stay off the ball and just tackle, tackle, tackle. If the reward favours the tackler then that's what guys will do. And that will defeat the purpose of opening up the game.


I see your point and we don't want players focusing more on tackling than taking possession, but end of the day I dont think players will just give up on getting the ball, especially with the reinvention of tapping the ball on coming back in style. Can't afford to sit off the ball if they will just tap it past you and run past.
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby aquila audax on Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:26 am

WCE Booka 89 wrote:
MrWoollie wrote:
WCE Booka 89 wrote:I know stricter rules regarding free kicks hasn't worked in the past to improve the game, but what if they got stricter on illegal disposal/holding the ball? Any player who takes possession but doesn't get away a legal handball or kick but the ball comes out is penalised. Will stop this slow moving scrum we generally see.

I agree that there really needs to be a crackdown on blatantly illegal disposal. Too often you see things that are either a throw or an at best really dodgy handball or a blatant dropping the ball go unpunished.
However, I'm always reluctant to reward the guy who tackles rather than the guy who works harder to actually gain possession.
A heavy crackdown on disposal, any disposal or failure to handpass/kick on taking the ball will encourage guys to stay off the ball and just tackle, tackle, tackle. If the reward favours the tackler then that's what guys will do. And that will defeat the purpose of opening up the game.


I see your point and we don't want players focusing more on tackling than taking possession, but end of the day I dont think players will just give up on getting the ball, especially with the reinvention of tapping the ball on coming back in style. Can't afford to sit off the ball if they will just tap it past you and run past.


Speaking of tackling , can someone explain to me a recent trend in the game which has become quite a frequent event this year ?

If a player is tackled at a centre square bounce or at a throw in on the boundary , and he doesn't have the ball , an instant free kick is paid .

When a player is standing on a mark and concentrating on what the player with the ball is going to do , it is not uncommon for an opposition player to shepherd him off the mark , and more often than not , physically grab him and pull him away from the mark .
Why is that not a free kick , since the player being interfered with clearly is not in possession of the ball ?
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby Fat Side on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:02 am

aquila audax wrote:
WCE Booka 89 wrote:
MrWoollie wrote:I agree that there really needs to be a crackdown on blatantly illegal disposal. Too often you see things that are either a throw or an at best really dodgy handball or a blatant dropping the ball go unpunished.
However, I'm always reluctant to reward the guy who tackles rather than the guy who works harder to actually gain possession.
A heavy crackdown on disposal, any disposal or failure to handpass/kick on taking the ball will encourage guys to stay off the ball and just tackle, tackle, tackle. If the reward favours the tackler then that's what guys will do. And that will defeat the purpose of opening up the game.


I see your point and we don't want players focusing more on tackling than taking possession, but end of the day I dont think players will just give up on getting the ball, especially with the reinvention of tapping the ball on coming back in style. Can't afford to sit off the ball if they will just tap it past you and run past.


Speaking of tackling , can someone explain to me a recent trend in the game which has become quite a frequent event this year ?

If a player is tackled at a centre square bounce or at a throw in on the boundary , and he doesn't have the ball , an instant free kick is paid .

When a player is standing on a mark and concentrating on what the player with the ball is going to do , it is not uncommon for an opposition player to shepherd him off the mark , and more often than not , physically grab him and pull him away from the mark .
Why is that not a free kick , since the player being interfered with clearly is not in possession of the ball ?


Yes. The player with the ball runs off the line causing the umpire to call play on. An opposition player is then able to shepherd the man on the mark. They shouldn't be grabbing them as that is an obvious free kick.
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:52 pm

Fat Side wrote:
aquila audax wrote:
WCE Booka 89 wrote:
I see your point and we don't want players focusing more on tackling than taking possession, but end of the day I dont think players will just give up on getting the ball, especially with the reinvention of tapping the ball on coming back in style. Can't afford to sit off the ball if they will just tap it past you and run past.


Speaking of tackling , can someone explain to me a recent trend in the game which has become quite a frequent event this year ?

If a player is tackled at a centre square bounce or at a throw in on the boundary , and he doesn't have the ball , an instant free kick is paid .

When a player is standing on a mark and concentrating on what the player with the ball is going to do , it is not uncommon for an opposition player to shepherd him off the mark , and more often than not , physically grab him and pull him away from the mark .
Why is that not a free kick , since the player being interfered with clearly is not in possession of the ball ?


Yes. The player with the ball runs off the line causing the umpire to call play on. An opposition player is then able to shepherd the man on the mark. They shouldn't be grabbing them as that is an obvious free kick.


Also if play-on hasnt been called, the umpire will call the play back. End of the day, the difference is it is now general play rather than a stoppage so a player should expect shepherds.
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby Voice of Reason on Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:24 pm

I just watched the first quarter of Freo v Port and it is disgraceful. Anti-football.

One of my daughter’s friends is a fanatical Freo fan and she isn’t going today. She says she wants Lyon to go so badly that she wants Freo to lose - and she can’t go wanting them to lose.
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby Fat Side on Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:18 pm

Voice of Reason wrote:I just watched the first quarter of Freo v Port and it is disgraceful. Anti-football.

One of my daughter’s friends is a fanatical Freo fan and she isn’t going today. She says she wants Lyon to go so badly that she wants Freo to lose - and she can’t go wanting them to lose.
Amazing.


They may need to lose to Carlton at home to see Lyon off. Give it a few weeks.
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby MrWoollie on Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:25 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Voice of Reason wrote:I just watched the first quarter of Freo v Port and it is disgraceful. Anti-football.

One of my daughter’s friends is a fanatical Freo fan and she isn’t going today. She says she wants Lyon to go so badly that she wants Freo to lose - and she can’t go wanting them to lose.
Amazing.


They may need to lose to Carlton at home to see Lyon off. Give it a few weeks.

A truly terrible game.
3 goals to half time. Got to be the worst 1/2 of football in this century. And I'm not just saying that because it was the Muppets and Bogans. It was that bad! Fascinatingly bad at times. Watching to see where the next comedy moment of hopelessness was coming from.
Two clubs looking like they were playing for the Draft Bonanza Cup.
Ground looked more than 1/2 empty as well.

And Lyon hangs on for another week. Got to be happy about that. And that result helps us on so many levels as well. Helps our top 2/4 chances. Hurts PA top 2/4 chances. PA didn't get the percentage boost we all thought they would.

Can only hope we get Port in that sort of form when we play them at AO.
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby Fat Side on Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:56 pm

MrWoollie wrote:
Fat Side wrote:
Voice of Reason wrote:I just watched the first quarter of Freo v Port and it is disgraceful. Anti-football.

One of my daughter’s friends is a fanatical Freo fan and she isn’t going today. She says she wants Lyon to go so badly that she wants Freo to lose - and she can’t go wanting them to lose.
Amazing.


They may need to lose to Carlton at home to see Lyon off. Give it a few weeks.

A truly terrible game.
3 goals to half time. Got to be the worst 1/2 of football in this century. And I'm not just saying that because it was the Muppets and Bogans. It was that bad! Fascinatingly bad at times. Watching to see where the next comedy moment of hopelessness was coming from.
Two clubs looking like they were playing for the Draft Bonanza Cup.
Ground looked more than 1/2 empty as well.

And Lyon hangs on for another week. Got to be happy about that. And that result helps us on so many levels as well. Helps our top 2/4 chances. Hurts PA top 2/4 chances. PA didn't get the percentage boost we all thought they would.

Can only hope we get Port in that sort of form when we play them at AO.


After today's game I am loving the Dockers
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby wce1293 on Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:16 pm

Geelong vs Melbourne...what a cracker of a game!!
Geelong 29 points down in last quarter.
7 goals by Hawkins on his birthday.
Tuohy wins it after the siren.
Leave the game alone!
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby MrWoollie on Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:45 pm

wce1293 wrote:Geelong vs Melbourne...what a cracker of a game!!
Geelong 29 points down in last quarter.
7 goals by Hawkins on his birthday.
Tuohy wins it after the siren.
Leave the game alone!

Accuracy is king. It was a fabulous game to watch.
Unlike some this weekend.
The skills shown by some teams have just been horrible. St Kilda, Dockers, Scum spring to mind.
In the Saints game the number of times that they had a guy with the ball, 20+ metres in the clear and passing to a guy no more than 35 metres away and with no-one within 15 metres and they miss the target by so much that a distant Richmond player was either getting first touch or immediately putting the Saints guy under pressure was laughable.

As for the 'Leave the game alone' idea I'm generally in the less change is more camp. I'm not for more zones and controls and less players or any of that stuff. If anything go back to go forwards. Less (much less) interchange; reduce the bench to 2 + one independently verified injury sub would spread the game out.
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby Fat Side on Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:43 am

It looks like the AFL are hellbent on changing the game's rules. I have been going to WCE home games for nearly 20 years and I usually catch up with mates to watch the away games and finals. I talk to other footy supporters at work and in the community. Despite that, I am yet to hear anybody say that the game needs to be changed. They continue to discuss passages of play, awesome goals and marks etc. Never do they say the game looks crap and needs to change.

If my experience is typical, why does the AFL feel it has to make changes? Is it down to attendance figures? TV audience ratings?

If it is to do with dwindling audiences, then the AFL need to implement a process where they can change scheduling. I have little interest in watching St Kilda play Carlton on a Friday night. There have been several Carlton games scheduled for Friday nights and they have been a basket case for years. I am closer to understanding why a Richmond/St Kilda clash is scheduled for Friday night given that St Kilda were supposed to be competitive this year, but the AFL needs to be able to change the fixturing when club performance doesn't come up to expectations.

Swapping a Friday night game for a Saturday afternoon fixture may be a way to make the Friday night games more watchable (if that's a word). I am sure the multi $million AFL executive and think tanks can make it work.

Constantly messing with the game is not going to fix the attendances/audiences if the fixture continues to showcase crap teams. If there is a groundswell of supporters complaining about congestion, I am not hearing it. A quick fix attitude is likely to backfire.
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby CouchPotato on Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:55 am

Fat Side wrote:It looks like the AFL are hellbent on changing the game's rules. I have been going to WCE home games for nearly 20 years and I usually catch up with mates to watch the away games and finals. I talk to other footy supporters at work and in the community. Despite that, I am yet to hear anybody say that the game needs to be changed. They continue to discuss passages of play, awesome goals and marks etc. Never do they say the game looks crap and needs to change.

If my experience is typical, why does the AFL feel it has to make changes? Is it down to attendance figures? TV audience ratings?

If it is to do with dwindling audiences, then the AFL need to implement a process where they can change scheduling. I have little interest in watching St Kilda play Carlton on a Friday night. There have been several Carlton games scheduled for Friday nights and they have been a basket case for years. I am closer to understanding why a Richmond/St Kilda clash is scheduled for Friday night given that St Kilda were supposed to be competitive this year, but the AFL needs to be able to change the fixturing when club performance doesn't come up to expectations.

Swapping a Friday night game for a Saturday afternoon fixture may be a way to make the Friday night games more watchable (if that's a word). I am sure the multi $million AFL executive and think tanks can make it work.

Constantly messing with the game is not going to fix the attendances/audiences if the fixture continues to showcase crap teams. If there is a groundswell of supporters complaining about congestion, I am not hearing it. A quick fix attitude is likely to backfire.


I'm with you on this, the discussion seems to have moved to be 'what changes do we need' not 'do we need changes'... and I don't get it.

Why are TV ratings down? Because the schedule this year was stupid from the outset. I looked at the fixture and laughed at some of the matchups.

How is Coll v Richmond this week on at 11:45 on a Saturday arvo? But lets leave carlton v GC on Saturday night :roll:
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Re: The "state of the game"

Postby Pinion King on Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:01 pm

https://thewest.com.au/sport/west-coast ... b88908708z

“Players have no input in the rules, the AFL literally just do what they want,” he said.

“Especially coming from Western Australia, it’s as if we’re irrelevant over here, so no one is going to listen.”

“I’ve been around for long enough now to realise that we’re pretty much irrelevant, we just rock up on game day.

“We’ve got no say.”
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