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The most over-rated AFL player

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The most over-rated AFL player

Postby MrWoollie on Thu May 26, 2016 3:17 am

Reading about and listening to Travis Cloke whining about his stint in the VFL made me start thinking...

Is he the most over-rated player of the modern era? I have thought so for 5+ years.

Let's be honest here. Nearly 250 games as the #1 (and often only) big man target and he averages well under 2 goals a game. This is despite playing in a team that for a period of his career had the best midfield around with Pendles, Swan etc. feeding him. He should have an average of around 4 goals a games, not less than 2.

At his best he can kick a handful, usually against weak opposition, but rarely gets more than 4 against a decent defence. His best ever is 7 in a game. In the 2009-2012 period where the Pies never finished lower than 4th he should have been kicking 80-100 a season. With the midfield they had someone like JK or Buddy would have been eyeing a 100 every year.

I can't think of a more over-rated player in the comp. Sure, there are worse ones, but they are recognised as such.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Thu May 26, 2016 4:15 am

Career conversion rate of 55% is pretty poor as well. I really am not sure there is a more over-rated player than Travis Cloke. I think it if weren't for his name and being at Collingwood he definitely wouldn't have lasted as long.

Also looking at his profile, he is 108kg! And looking at him, he isn't fat, so there is no reason he shouldn't be kicking huge bags week in week out, yet he hasnt passed the 70 goals in a season mark.

Going to take a lot to knock off Travis Cloke.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby Fat Side on Thu May 26, 2016 7:58 am

Matthew Pavlich - Wins six BFs because there was nobody else and was gifted about four of his AAs.

Key forward with less than two goals a game.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby Mr Q on Thu May 26, 2016 12:07 pm

Fat Side wrote:Matthew Pavlich - Wins six BFs because there was nobody else and was gifted about four of his AAs.

Key forward with less than two goals a game.


I'll defend Pav. You don't get to 340 games without a lot of talent. Sad for him he'll be going out with such a shit final season.

He spent sections of his career playing more up the ground, and kicked fewer goals, particularly the first five years of his career.

But he's had seasons closer to home, and kicked 70+ twice and 69 once. He may not be the best FF in the land, but he's been a good all-round player.

If you're going to call Pav out as overrated, then you'd have to call out Nick Riewoldt as well.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby domo_the_eagle on Thu May 26, 2016 12:22 pm

Mr Q wrote:
Fat Side wrote:Matthew Pavlich - Wins six BFs because there was nobody else and was gifted about four of his AAs.

Key forward with less than two goals a game.


I'll defend Pav. You don't get to 340 games without a lot of talent. Sad for him he'll be going out with such a shit final season.

He spent sections of his career playing more up the ground, and kicked fewer goals, particularly the first five years of his career.

But he's had seasons closer to home, and kicked 70+ twice and 69 once. He may not be the best FF in the land, but he's been a good all-round player.

If you're going to call Pav out as overrated, then you'd have to call out Nick Riewoldt as well.


Cant blame Pav for being leagues above the rest of his Failmantle team mates. You dont win AA in defense, midfield and fwd if you're overrated.

Looking at the bloke now, hes just worn out. I wonder if he regrets going on this extra year.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby Tony Evans Rules on Thu May 26, 2016 12:34 pm

That Pav call is atrocious. One of the few footballing success stories to come out of that pathetic club.

Most overrated player in the AFL right now? Probably Cyril Rioli, although I do admit he (along with 21 others) destroyed us in the GF.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby jourgo on Thu May 26, 2016 1:02 pm

If Colin Sylvia was still playing, nobody would need to ask.

As of now? Difficult to tell but Cloke would indeed take some beating, and could probably only be unseated by another of the black & white stripe wearing brigade. Jeremy Howe perhaps?
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby domo_the_eagle on Thu May 26, 2016 1:05 pm

Tony Evans Rules wrote:That Pav call is atrocious. One of the few footballing success stories to come out of that pathetic club.

Most overrated player in the AFL right now? Probably Cyril Rioli, although I do admit he (along with 21 others) destroyed us in the GF.


Yes Cyril and wingard to an extent. the problem is both are dangerous players.

i always though Adam Goodes was a tad overrated. Possibly due to his onerous winging in the last few years of his career. You forget he won a brownlow playing in the ruck then as a mid.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby Total Package on Thu May 26, 2016 1:13 pm

I'd trade just about any player on our list not named Naitanui... to get Cyril Rioli in his prime. Definitely not overrated.

I'd say Zac Dawson although I am not sure he is actually rated by anyone outside of Ross Lyon. I still can't believe he is in the AFL.

I think Jeremy Howe from Collingwood ex Melbourne is overrated. There is a guy who has made a career from taking 1 or 2 speccies a month... and not much else.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby DALBY on Thu May 26, 2016 1:43 pm

Cloke is overpaid for sure. He used to be the best contested mark in the game. What happened to him? Pavlich was a gun in his prime.Silly to stay purple, but a gun. Rioli would be starting in any team. I agree with Dawson and Sylvia. Howe will come good, I like watching him play. I think Frawley is a touch overrated, but that might be I haven't watched much of him.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby domo_the_eagle on Thu May 26, 2016 1:50 pm

Total Package wrote:I'd trade just about any player on our list not named Naitanui... to get Cyril Rioli in his prime. Definitely not overrated.

I'd say Zac Dawson although I am not sure he is actually rated by anyone outside of Ross Lyon. I still can't believe he is in the AFL.

I think Jeremy Howe from Collingwood ex Melbourne is overrated. There is a guy who has made a career from taking 1 or 2 speccies a month... and not much else.


Im just jealous we dont have a dangerous small crumbing forward
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby Fat Side on Thu May 26, 2016 1:53 pm

Mr Q wrote:
Fat Side wrote:Matthew Pavlich - Wins six BFs because there was nobody else and was gifted about four of his AAs.

Key forward with less than two goals a game.


I'll defend Pav. You don't get to 340 games without a lot of talent. Sad for him he'll be going out with such a shit final season.

He spent sections of his career playing more up the ground, and kicked fewer goals, particularly the first five years of his career.

But he's had seasons closer to home, and kicked 70+ twice and 69 once. He may not be the best FF in the land, but he's been a good all-round player.

If you're going to call Pav out as overrated, then you'd have to call out Nick Riewoldt as well.


Leading goalkickers at Fremantle since Pavlich arrived:

2000 Clive Waterhouse 53
2001 Justin Longmuir/Matthew Pavlich 28
2002 Trent Croad 42
2003 Paul Medhurst 48
2004 Paul Medhurst 41
2005 Matthew Pavlich 61
2006 Matthew Pavlich 63
2007 Matthew Pavlich 72
2008 Matthew Pavlich 67
2009 Matthew Pavlich 28
2010 Matthew Pavlich 54
2011 Kepler Bradley/Chris Mayne 25
2012 Matthew Pavlich 64
2013 Michael Walters 46
2014 Hayden Ballantyne 49
2015 Michael Walters 44

I don't dispute he is a good player but he's been poured over by the media who desperately seek a decent Fremantle player. He's been a big fish in a tiny tiny talent pool so he's made to look better than he is.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby WCE06 on Thu May 26, 2016 2:33 pm

Cloke is a great candidate for most overrated player. Terry Wallace the most overrated coach ever. Cyril Rioli is not overrated he's a gun. Pav an outstanding leader and player but not quite an out and out star.
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Thu May 26, 2016 2:58 pm

I think when comparing "overated" players you have to consider how highly they are rated versus how they actually perform. Cloke is rated by many as one of the best forwards in the game. His stats show he is an average goal kicker on par with probably Quinten Lynch. His conversion is atrocious for someone of his position, especially considering where he gets his shots from (anyone seen the shot he had in the VFL? think it was probably 12m out 5 degree angle, up there with that "rojo shot")

So in say an out of ten scoring system "experts" rate him about an 8.5-9 depending on whether they have ties to Collingwood or not. In reality he delivers about a 5.5-6. So on average a 3 variance.

Jeremy Howe is rated as a good young talent with impressive skills. I don't think anyone rates him as one of the best players in the comp. He probably earns himself a mark in the experts eyes of around a 6.5 maybe a 7 after a good season with the dees and a lot of exciting mark of the years. He probably produces at the mark of a 5 for a medium sized forward. So about a 2, but he also has the benefit of going into his peak unlike Cloke who is out the other side.

Cyril is a weird one. He is rated extremely highly, probably in the 9-10 range by many experts (10.5 by Bruuuuce :lol: ) and at times he quite rightly has that ranking as he can just single handedly take the game away from you. But he is also very inconsistent and can just not show up for large chunks. So I don't really know how to properly rank him...
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Re: The most over-rated AFL player

Postby farmer joe on Thu May 26, 2016 3:10 pm

Trent Cotchin. If he wasn't at Richmond he would have got half the praise he has. A bit like Pav (who I admire for his longevity and loyalty) in that he is a big name in a small pool.
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