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Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man footy

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Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man footy

Postby Bacardi Babe on Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:11 am

Hi guys, have not posted in many years but felt the need to today.

I have been watching all season and had the chance to think back over the course of the year this morning. We have lost 9 games this season of which 6 have been by less than two goals. In one loss, we were competitive and got beaten by about 5 goals and only two losses (Hawks and Bombers games) were absolutely drubbings. By and large we've been 'in it' during most games. Imagine where the team might sit on the ladder today if we had won even three of those 6 close games.. probably top four if not close to.

I further looked into the 6 games we lost and all of those games were lost because we fell asleep in the third or fourth quarter (for large periods of time in the second half). Simmo calls it intensity, I call it mental toughness. What do you all think? Sorry if its been discussed but I couldn't see any topics specifically about it.

Is it intensity/mental toughness or is it general fitness? I watch each week and we do seem slow 'out there' and we battle to 'protect the space' like Simmo would like the players too. I think for the rest of the season and when the wins are vital,the team need to go back to one on one/man on man footy and make a much bigger contest of each disputed possession. Make the GWS and Adelaide midfields earn every kick! Switch it up, change things around and surprise the other teams coaching panel. Can a professional football team change tactics 'just like that' or even will Simmo have the balls to make such a huge change? The answer is probably not but I still think its a good tactic.

What do you all think?
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby domo_the_eagle on Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:31 am

This kind of has been discussed in most, if not all match day threads but there has not been a dedicated topic until now.

The debate got very heated i must say, many posters, myself included struggling to contain emotions and just lashing out on the keyboard.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that the coaching panel just lack imagination/strategy/match day coaching (i.e they cant coach). They have tinkered slightly with positional changes (Duggan from HFF to HBF, Sheed spending more midfield time, Gov playing some games primarily up forward, Ruck combination) but to me they are pretty obvious switch ups.

The guarding of space is so 2015, opposition teams have figured out how to cut this game plan in half, HELL even the poorer team also have they just lack the execution to kill us off.

The midfield is extremely reliant on nic (most teams are usually reliant on 1x gun mid...Adelaide has sloane, Geelong have Danger/Selwood, we have ???), cant win their own ball. So by necessity our gameplan has now evolved to conceeding the stoppage/clearance and try to win the ball back by elite defensive intercept marking & having an exceptionally once in a generation forward who is extremely efficient at converting scoring opportunities.

The general consensus among the footy world is that west coast do not stand for anything, no grunt, no mongrel, no leaders, no apparent game plan. It took until our capitulation against collingwood for the media to take us to task, but then 2 weeks later the same result occurs and its just like meh same old west coast.

Hindsight is 20/20, looking back on it recruiting Mitchell & Petrie has been a mistake. Petrie has done an absolutely wonderful job at filling a required role but who's to say McInnes may have been able to find his feet at AFL level by playing this role, we will now never know. Playing Mitchell has brought a premature end to Priddis' career but also robbed us the chance of getting youngsters to rotate into the midfield and gaining valuable AFL exposure.

2017 has completely been mismanaged on all fronts by West Coast and i've never ever before felt so exasperated/deflated/disinterested in the club.

maybe a half empty stadium in 2018 may drum the message back to the bean counters and glorified admin workers.
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby domo_the_eagle on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:54 pm

Another interesting note is that we are number 1 or 2 in the league for time in front.

So generally we have no problems getting a lead and maintaining it. However we somehow switch off for a quarter / struggle to halt the oppositions momentum and give up a decent lead.

Its certainly become a pattern and would get into the players heads. i fear we may struggle to change these players mentally from subconsciously choking.
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby MrWoollie on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:58 pm

It could be a combination of both.

We certainly seem to switch off when in front - definitely mental.
We also seem to do it most at the end of quarters and late in the game - this suggests a physical side.

The physical side and the late fades have also become more apparent the more the season has gone on. This is reminiscent of NM last year and could be (like NM) a side effect of being an old team.
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby farmer joe on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:02 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:Another interesting note is that we are number 1 or 2 in the league for time in front.

Wow. That is interesting. Makes you wonder.
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby Bigbird on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:59 pm

I said at the start of the year to a mate that footy seemed to be trending back towards a more one on one focus. We seemed to adopt that brand around the Cats game and I liked what I saw for a few weeks. I think that is the type of footy that will give us the best opportunity of taking anything out of this coming weekend. We are fit enough....I don't think running out games is the issue. Mentally...who knows.

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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby penrith eagle on Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:12 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that the coaching panel just lack imagination/strategy/match day coaching (i.e they cant coach). They have tinkered slightly with positional changes (Duggan from HFF to HBF, Sheed spending more midfield time, Gov playing some games primarily up forward, Ruck combination) but to me they are pretty obvious switch ups.The guarding of space is so 2015, opposition teams have figured out how to cut this game plan in half, HELL even the poorer team also have they just lack the execution to kill us off.The midfield is extremely reliant on nic (most teams are usually reliant on 1x gun mid...Adelaide has sloane, Geelong have Danger/Selwood, we have ???), cant win their own ball. So by necessity our gameplan has now evolved to conceeding the stoppage/clearance and try to win the ball back by elite defensive intercept marking & having an exceptionally once in a generation forward who is extremely efficient at converting scoring opportunities.


Spot on

My biggest concern for next year is that with our out dated zoning defence style its going to stuff us up come the new stadium with its new dimensions.

It might take a while for Simpson to adjust.....and by that stage his job will be in trouble
The will to win...we have lost it.......maybe its coming back ??

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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby Mead on Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:40 pm

a.) No we're not b.) neither

MrWoollie wrote:The physical side and the late fades have also become more apparent the more the season has gone on. This is reminiscent of NM last year and could be (like NM) a side effect of being an old team.


That is exactly what it is. The dreadful state of the list at the moment has been caused by-

- a relatively settled 22 for the last few years and conservative selection policy meaning little development opportunities for kids and slow turnover of those players.

- an extremely heavy focus on trading for established players rather than drafting and internal development (think Hill, Ellis, Bennell, Wellingham, Yeo, Redden, Jetta, Mitchell and Petrie all of whom have featured heavily in the 22 from their first day at the club)

- A few seriously good game winners (Naitanui, McGovern, Yeo, Kennedy) papering over cracks in the rest of the list and falsely inflating our position each season and creating an unrealistic perception of what the rest of the list is capable of achieving.

Put those together and you have a recipe for a very stagnant, old and mediocre team to develop over time.

Of all the things which have been most frustrating about the last month of football, it is that Collingwood, Brisbane, St Kilda and Carlton, all of whom who looked to have our measure at times in contested football and clearances, are far younger, and much further along in development than us. When the penny finally drops and the rebuild starts in earnest, we are going to be several years behind all of them. Amazingly bad decisions this year have put us at 12:05AM on the premiership clock.
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby domo_the_eagle on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:06 am

Mead wrote:- an extremely heavy focus on trading for established players rather than drafting and internal development (think Hill, Ellis, Bennell, Wellingham, Yeo, Redden, Jetta, Mitchell and Petrie all of whom have featured heavily in the 22 from their first day at the club)


Hill was brought in at the end of the 2011 season
Bennel, Wellingham & Cripps came at the end of 2012
Yeo & Ellis at the end of 2013
Redden & Jetta at the end of 2015

I think hill, cripps & wellingham have made serviceable contributions to the team.

Bennel & Ellis were worth the punts

We got Yeo pretty young and he's still got room to grow, he should have another 150 games in him.

Jetta was recruited as he was the player, on paper we desperately needed. He just hasnt got the work ethic & picks and chooses when to play (not much different from most players in this team atm).

I honestly don't know why we recruited redden when we had a surplus of established inside mids, and 3-4 developing inside mids. Massive blue by vozzo and the recruiters.
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby farmer joe on Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:07 am

domo_the_eagle wrote:I honestly don't know why we recruited redden when we had a surplus of established inside mids, and 3-4 developing inside mids. Massive blue by vozzo and the recruiters.

Is it correct that Redden and Yeo are best mates? Given Yeo was a Freo supporter and wanted to go there, maybe we had to commit to Redden to get Yeo?

Just a thought..
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby domo_the_eagle on Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:25 am

farmer joe wrote:
domo_the_eagle wrote:I honestly don't know why we recruited redden when we had a surplus of established inside mids, and 3-4 developing inside mids. Massive blue by vozzo and the recruiters.

Is it correct that Redden and Yeo are best mates? Given Yeo was a Freo supporter and wanted to go there, maybe we had to commit to Redden to get Yeo?

Just a thought..


I do recall them being mates, and redden actually requesting being traded to us on the back of yeo playing for us. But to give up our first round pick because we thought scooter would net us an end of first round pick as FA compensation is hilariously stupid from management.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-12/west-coast-chief-furious-at-afl-compensation-for-scott-selwood/6848258
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby DALBY on Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:23 am

Unless we defeat GWS this week BB, we are making up numbers. Even if we do, we have trouble being consistent. I'm still angry about the 15GF and the Bulldogs loss last year, we have not played anywhere near enough to have any credit this year.
Last edited by DALBY on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:44 pm

DALBY wrote:Unless we defeat GWS this week BB, we are making up numbers. Evcen if we do, we have trouble being consistent. I'm still angry about the 15GF and the Bulldogs loss last year, we have not played anywhere near enough to have any credit this year.


Indeed if we did somehow manage to make the finals all I could see is a humiliating lose coming our way that would make the scaring of the 2015 grand final look like a scratch.
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby domo_the_eagle on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:55 pm

another humiliating finals loss, that would make it 3x humiliating finals losses in a row.

essentially we have a 22 full of leon davis' :lol:
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Re: Are we fit enough? Mentally and Physically? Man on man f

Postby domo_the_eagle on Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:00 pm

DALBY wrote:Unless we defeat GWS this week BB, we are making up numbers. Even if we do, we have trouble being consistent. I'm still angry about the 15GF and the Bulldogs loss last year, we have not played anywhere near enough to have any credit this year.


Same here man, that 15GF loss was just plain embarrassing for this club, too many players shat the bed. The same players went missing in the 16EF.

It's like the players got a slight taste of ultimate success and decided its too damn hard to put the grind in to get there again.
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