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The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby Mr Q on Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:49 pm

farmer joe wrote:
Mr Q wrote:
farmer joe wrote:Isnt the PTA saying that the issue they have is directly attributable to them not having enough drivers? That has nothing to do with where the stadium is located.


There is one huge difference between this stadium and the recommended Subiaco stadium that the Libs killed off.

The Subi stadium is (relatively) near the main Joondalup-Mandurah line. The equivalent of Leederville station is the huge missing hole in the transport equation - thought I doubt that Emperor Colin had caught a train to anything in thirty years. This meant that people on that line could catch the scheduled peak hour trains to Leederville for the footy, which were extremely frequent. At the very least, people coming from the north didn't have to change trains to get to Subiaco if they were prepared for a short walk.

Now we suddenly have (with no through trains), passengers from *both* Joondalup and Mandurah lines having to change in the city for the shuttles. Meaning at least a 30% jump in required capacity for them, over a more complex route than the old City <-> West Leederville shuttle.

Yeh, I get all that. I have heard it before and understand it. But....the PTA is saying the issue at the moment is ONLY a lack of drivers. Well FMD...sort that out by getting some temps or contract help. The role of government should be to find solutions. Not to run away, spit the dummy and hide in the corner saying it is all too hard? If this is truly how government and the public service operates in Australia we are seriously f..ked.


All the drivers would be engaged running peak hour trains. There's only so many of them unless you want to pay for a lot of drivers that aren't normally required.

For non peak, they can pay overtime. Not likely an option during peak hours when every available driver would already be working.

Would you really want inexperienced temps working driving full trains during what would be the single busiest time on the network? One fuck up and the whole system falls apart.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby Mr Q on Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm

I'd add that this was eminently fucking predictable.

I've been predicting problems with transport since before Emperor Colin made this captain's pick.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby Fat Side on Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:13 pm

Mr Q wrote:I'd add that this was eminently fucking predictable.

I've been predicting problems with transport since before Emperor Colin made this captain's pick.


This isn't an issue about train driver availability, it is to do with the transport plan including a footbridge. Clearly Transperth can move up to 60000 people on a weekend without a footbridge so there is nothing to panic about. Had Barnett not completely fucked up the footbridge project the plan would be in place. Once the footbridge is in place this will no longer be an issue.

Like I said; it's a storm in a teacup. The media beating up a story that isn't there. If the footbridge was in place this wouldn't be a topic of discussion.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby farmer joe on Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:22 am

Mr Q wrote:I'd add that this was eminently fucking predictable.

I've been predicting problems with transport since before Emperor Colin made this captain's pick.

I thought the PTA was saying the issue is a shortage of bus drivers? Far from a specialised, highly skilled occupation and entirely suitable to short term and temp staffing. As I said, the job of government should be to find solutions. Throwing their hands in the air and saying too hard is a gutless cop out.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby Mr Q on Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:22 pm

farmer joe wrote:
Mr Q wrote:I'd add that this was eminently fucking predictable.

I've been predicting problems with transport since before Emperor Colin made this captain's pick.

I thought the PTA was saying the issue is a shortage of bus drivers? Far from a specialised, highly skilled occupation and entirely suitable to short term and temp staffing. As I said, the job of government should be to find solutions. Throwing their hands in the air and saying too hard is a gutless cop out.


Really? The government was handed a shit sandwich by the previous government - who, I'd note, built a stadium that was some half a billion dollars more expensive than the Kitchener Park plans.

Why should the current government do anything in particular to get this out of the shit? After all, it would be yet another outlay of cash, when we're apparently having to cut costs everywhere.

Plus, you're not going to be able to satisfactorily train a pile of bus drivers between now and this hypothetical BBL match.

Someone needs to go tell Colin Barnett that he's largely responsible for this problem - it was his government who made the mistake to build the stadium at Burswood against all recommendation. He should be pulling his head in when people actually point out the problems that are resulting - particularly ones that people pointed out *before the stadium was even considered*. I said in this very thread back before the Labor government chose Kitchener Park, let alone before this stadium was started, that Burswood would be a transportation nightmare - and I'm not even an expert in the field.

Let's be brutally honest - there's an intention of improving the public transport takeup from the old 40% at Subiaco to 83% - even if we still got crowds of 35,000 per match, that's moving 15,000 more people per match each way. If the crowds go up to 50,000, then it goes from 14,000/match to 41,000 per match. Transperth already didn't run the direct Mandurah trains on weekdays to Subiaco (they did run them post match) - thinking that there was any chance they could cope on a weekday with up to 27,000 more passengers is completely and utterly insane.

This footbridge is supposed to handle the same number of people who used to catch *all forms* of public transport from Subiaco at an average game. To disperse them to East Perth and buses, and a very small amount of parking. I'm a little sceptical about this (hope I'm wrong), but I really don't think that the previous government really took transport that seriously compared to appearance and a big bonus to Jamie Packer.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:38 pm

Mr Q wrote:Really? The government was handed a shit sandwich by the previous government - who, I'd note, built a stadium that was some half a billion dollars more expensive than the Kitchener Park plans.

Why should the current government do anything in particular to get this out of the shit? After all, it would be yet another outlay of cash, when we're apparently having to cut costs everywhere.


True.

The location is a 'round hole' and 'transport' there is a square peg; maybe bashing it hard might make it fit.

Yes I seem to remember that the previous Government was told by Transport that they would not be able to have Friday night footy at the stadium even with a foot bridge. Hopefully a lot of work has been done to try to make this more possible but this location was always going to stretch transport past capacity with the previous Governments main solution being the plebs need to get used to arriving early and leaving late via public transport.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby farmer joe on Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:00 pm

Mr Q wrote:Really? The government was handed a shit sandwich by the previous government - who, I'd note, built a stadium that was some half a billion dollars more expensive than the Kitchener Park plans.

Why should the current government do anything in particular to get this out of the shit? After all, it would be yet another outlay of cash, when we're apparently having to cut costs everywhere.

Plus, you're not going to be able to satisfactorily train a pile of bus drivers between now and this hypothetical BBL match.

Someone needs to go tell Colin Barnett that he's largely responsible for this problem - it was his government who made the mistake to build the stadium at Burswood against all recommendation. He should be pulling his head in when people actually point out the problems that are resulting - particularly ones that people pointed out *before the stadium was even considered*. I said in this very thread back before the Labor government chose Kitchener Park, let alone before this stadium was started, that Burswood would be a transportation nightmare - and I'm not even an expert in the field.

Let's be brutally honest - there's an intention of improving the public transport takeup from the old 40% at Subiaco to 83% - even if we still got crowds of 35,000 per match, that's moving 15,000 more people per match each way. If the crowds go up to 50,000, then it goes from 14,000/match to 41,000 per match. Transperth already didn't run the direct Mandurah trains on weekdays to Subiaco (they did run them post match) - thinking that there was any chance they could cope on a weekday with up to 27,000 more passengers is completely and utterly insane.

This footbridge is supposed to handle the same number of people who used to catch *all forms* of public transport from Subiaco at an average game. To disperse them to East Perth and buses, and a very small amount of parking. I'm a little sceptical about this (hope I'm wrong), but I really don't think that the previous government really took transport that seriously compared to appearance and a big bonus to Jamie Packer.

Given I have to get there from down south I am acutely aware of the hassle that is likely to exist getting there (by the way the debacle of cancelling Row 8 only compounds the issue. History will show that to be one of the worst decisions by a government). But where there is a will, there will be a way and that should be the attitude the current government should be taking. Barnett may, or may not have, made a whole pile of mistakes but his commitment to infrastructure spend is one I applaud. We now have some chance that Perth will exist as a world class city. If McGowan and his advisors had any brains that would be finding positives and solutions and not taking shots about what has happened in the past.
I am excited and cant wait for the footy season to start.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:31 pm

farmer joe wrote:Given I have to get there from down south I am acutely aware of the hassle that is likely to exist getting there (by the way the debacle of cancelling Row 8 only compounds the issue. History will show that to be one of the worst decisions by a government). But where there is a will, there will be a way and that should be the attitude the current government should be taking. Barnett may, or may not have, made a whole pile of mistakes but his commitment to infrastructure spend is one I applaud. We now have some chance that Perth will exist as a world class city. If McGowan and his advisors had any brains that would be finding positives and solutions and not taking shots about what has happened in the past.
I am excited and cant wait for the footy season to start.


And where is the current Government to get the money to fix Barnett's mistakes? It is already going to take the next 25 years to recover from the debt he left. Should this Government only focus of fixing his mistakes or should they be allowed to also try to achieve some of their agenda at the same time? Without selling us more down the S hole.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby ruckroving on Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:01 pm

farmer joe wrote:
Mr Q wrote: If McGowan and his advisors had any brains that would be finding positives and solutions and not taking shots about what has happened in the past.
I am excited and cant wait for the footy season to start.



OK, if McGowan has brains he will leave the Burswood Stadium as a white elephant and do what was originally intended - build a stadium where the prime focus is on accessibility, not on how close it is to Jamie Packer's monstrosity. As Colin Barnett would say, what's another couple of billion?

I'm excited too, apart from having to wait in the rain after a loss for 60 minutes to catch a train home.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby WC Aquila on Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:25 pm

All I can say is that they better have this crap sorted out by Round 14 June 21, we are playing Essendon on a Thursday night. There is no curtain raiser so everyone will be turning up at the same time.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby domo_the_eagle on Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:07 pm

farmer joe wrote:
Mr Q wrote:I'd add that this was eminently fucking predictable.

I've been predicting problems with transport since before Emperor Colin made this captain's pick.

I thought the PTA was saying the issue is a shortage of bus drivers? Far from a specialised, highly skilled occupation and entirely suitable to short term and temp staffing. As I said, the job of government should be to find solutions. Throwing their hands in the air and saying too hard is a gutless cop out.


Its more skilled than you would think, alot more skilled than stacking shelves or driving a forklift.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby farmer joe on Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:37 am

Fair Bump Play On wrote:
farmer joe wrote:Given I have to get there from down south I am acutely aware of the hassle that is likely to exist getting there (by the way the debacle of cancelling Row 8 only compounds the issue. History will show that to be one of the worst decisions by a government). But where there is a will, there will be a way and that should be the attitude the current government should be taking. Barnett may, or may not have, made a whole pile of mistakes but his commitment to infrastructure spend is one I applaud. We now have some chance that Perth will exist as a world class city. If McGowan and his advisors had any brains that would be finding positives and solutions and not taking shots about what has happened in the past.
I am excited and cant wait for the footy season to start.


And where is the current Government to get the money to fix Barnett's mistakes? It is already going to take the next 25 years to recover from the debt he left. Should this Government only focus of fixing his mistakes or should they be allowed to also try to achieve some of their agenda at the same time? Without selling us more down the S hole.

You do the obvious thing and embark on asset recycling like the other state governments in Australia have done. I’m glad you would welcome taking the time machine back to pre boom late 90’s, early 00’s Perth. I won’t be going with you. Perth, and WA, has come along way. Yes, we have debt but any half assed economist will tell you that debt has resulted from structural expenditure (think public servant salaries) that Barnett was idiotic enough to increase through the boom and which Hasn’t been addressed. The infrastructure spend has never been the issue. That spend is what good governments undertake.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby Fat Side on Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:39 am

WC Aquila wrote:All I can say is that they better have this crap sorted out by Round 14 June 21, we are playing Essendon on a Thursday night. There is no curtain raiser so everyone will be turning up at the same time.


The issue isn't so much people arriving at the same time. Most arrive over a period of time. It is people leaving at the same time and getting them home.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby Fat Side on Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:44 am

WCE06 wrote:Forgot to mention flogging the naming rights which had their own tourism minister scratching his head.


It's obvious the WACA is in Perth. With Subiaco Oval it's clear that it's in Perth. The 'Gabba' in Brisbane. Adelaide Oval sounds like a primary school facility.
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Re: The Everlasting Stadium Thread.

Postby Mead on Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:01 pm

I don't really like the way the stadium is somehow perfect fodder for bashing politicians from either side of the fence. For what its worth this is what I reckon.

1. Now that it is built, in terms of visual appeal, the location of the stadium is an absolute stunner. If you haven't yet, go for a walk or a run along past Claisebrook Cove or across the causeway at dawn or dusk. It is hard to put into words how good it looks, the curves of the stadium harmonise well with the river, you can see the city skyline, and it is somehow both surrounded by trees and practically in the city, it looks absolutely fucking great. Even just jogging past it I get pumped up, I can't wait for games to start. The visuals for flyovers are beautiful, it means that the Swan River (which lets be honest, defecates all over the muddy creek that is the Yarra), will be a household name amongst sporting audiences around the country. From the outside at least, I seriously think it is the best looking location for any major sporting ground in Australia, and decades from now people around Australia will be in love with it.

2. Unless anyone on this forum happens to have access to some specialised technical knowledge on the subject, I suspect that none of us, me included, really have any clue about how the transport system can cope with the stadium being there. But it is and they need to, and what any government minister worth his salt would be doing at this point would be banging the table and telling the PTA to come up with a plan, rather than presenting ridiculous options like not letting the full capacity in for events. Doing things like restricting access to uber, and the fact that Western Australia apparently can't construct a footbridge in more time than it took for NASA to put a man in space leave me mystified. I also don't really understand how, having known for a long time that at some point in late 2017/early 2018 they were going to need to get 60 000 people to a location 10 minutes from the city, next to a train line and a major arterial road, government can't affordably achieve that task. PTA seems to be wanting to have their cake and eat it also, by presenting themselves as the only possible option to get to the game and then not delivering the required standard of service.

Personally, I think the government should look at an additional levy on casino based gambling (which is surely going to be making out like a bandit thanks to the location) to fund construction of transport links or subsidize parking.
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