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READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Discussion of all things Eagles
(the "EaglesFlyingHigh" board)

Moderators: Mead, Streaker, Mr Q

Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby Total Package on Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:49 pm

It's simple answer really. Just warn, suspend, ban anyone that personally attacks of baits a member of the forum.

The ground rules should be Players, coaches, Selectors, the club should be open game to discuss (and yes even whinge) about. It's when some people do personal stuff that its ridiculous and angers people.

If you don't like someone having an opinion that Matt Priddis is too slow and should retire or that you don't like the coaching plan or the selections... then more than happy to debate it. If it offends you though and you have to get personal about it... then it deserves a suspension.

eg: Telling them they aren't a "real supporter" because you mention that you are unhappy with the direction of the club..... is baiting... even if you think it's warranted.

If you can't handle other people's opinions without running them down over it then you shouldn't even be on the internet never mind this forum. I mean shit.. you must struggle with life in general.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby W.C.E.257 on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:24 pm

There are some great suggestions here on how to keep EFH on track .

The warnings and suspensions may be enough to keep people on track and not abusing each other .

I hope this gets sorted out as I would hate to lose the place we can discuss our footy club .
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby Mr Q on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:00 pm

Fair Bump Play On wrote:.... constructive and well argued rather than simply player denigration.


Player denigration is one of my bugbears. We're seeing a lot of problems in professional sport now where players are actively coming out with depression. And that's a serious thing, and there's absolutely no doubt that the Internet plays a part in that.

I don't mind criticism of players that is strictly based on how they're going. Comments like "worst player to play 150 games for us" just give me the shits. Whatever you might think of certain players, they are human beings - if you don't think you'd cope with similar comments about your abilities from a random stranger, then why the hell do you think the relative anonymity of the Internet makes it all OK? It is bullying and that's unacceptable in this day and age (in my opinion).

You can say something like "I'm not sure why Player X is selected when they don't seem to be performing well enough to be in the team. It's time to bring in Player Y instead", but saying "Player X is fucking useless and should be delisted" isn't really constructive or indeed worthy of anyone with a modicum of decency. The Internet unfortunately lets too many people be keyboard warriors, and I think that's a bad thing. Remember, this is people's lives and livelihoods that you're casually dumping on there. And if you don't think that players read this shit, well sorry, they do. They're like anyone else, if they're in the limelight, they want to see affirmation or otherwise from the public.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby Mead on Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:21 pm

I for one would be very sad if this board fell over. It's been a time capsule recording people's 'as they happened' reactions to 3 grand finals , 3 brownlows, 2 coaches, a spoon, the rise and fall and rise and fall again of cousins, the great tom swift schism of opinion, the rojo debates,
the day hall happened to staker, the day juddy became a traitorous bastard, nic nats crazy first game at subi, and by my reckoning about 11 first team ACLs.

To put things in perspective, some of us have been wasting our lives on here arguing with each other about football for longer than any current eagle has been on west coasts list. In my thirties, I find it both scary and amusing that there are people on here who I have barely or never met who I first talked football with in high school (admittedly on different message boards to begin with). Nostalgia aside, it is more fun talking football with well informed footy nerds than random joes in the office.

In terms of where things are at the moment I think the following:

1. The board goes through ebbs and flows and pretty much reflects where the team is at. When the club is in a bad place, which I think it is at the moment, numbers drop off, people get bitchy with each other and sooner or later you get the classic 'you're not a real supporter/you're completely delusional' argument. Personally I hate deleting posts because at the end of the day people are here to comment, and usually there's a kernel of truth in most borderline abusive posts, but I suppose it does make sense to be a bit more robust in moderating when there are a lot of unhappy people around. People also need to do their bit by avoiding being repetitious, particularly if they are doomsaying all the time (yes I know :)), and just leaving off anything bitchy and directed at other posters.

2. I also agree, and this may seem a bit hypocritical, that sometimes the player criticism goes a bit too far. Personally, I think if you're making a heap of money doing something which is only worth money because of the public attention it gets, you have to accept sometimes the public are going to express negative opinions. I would also hate to see this turn into a thought terminating, Eagletalk TV style interaction where everyone just says how great everyone is doing. But where possible it's better to stick to specific criticisms rather than general (ie X sprays kicks when put under pressure' rather than 'x is a dud' and avoid repetition when you criticize.

2. The question of what a message board exists to do in this day and age is an interesting one- it strikes me as kind of odd that at a time when there is way more football content available online, the amount of content on the message board has pretty much just shrunk to the game threads. Personally I think everything on the site should be incorporated into the message board and the message board should be the front page- I also think it would make far more sense to make the board work more as a place that aggregates and links to west coast content elsewhere on the net, with a strong emphasis on non print stuff- if you look at what make sure Reddit successful (other than all the money the KGB pumps into it) a huge amount of the stuff on there is just people linking things, particularly images and video, which a relevant to particular reddits. Just in terms of the technical side of stuff, which I am happily completely ignorant of, it is easier to post images, video and comment on comments in Facebook groups or on Reddit than here, and likes and upvotes incentivize good original content.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby FXD on Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:25 am

I would like to see an upvote/downvote like/dislike system for comment posts, like Reddit and comment sections on other websites do. That would be a good way for the community to show what they find to be quality content vs shit content, and all without name calling.

In Australia, Facebook is a behemoth and that's where everyone has gone to waste their time online. I find it odd, because generally people's real photo and name are used in their profile with which they are writing awful stuff about Muslims and Chris Masten...I don't comment much there and can't read too many comment threads on any of the big public FB pages before rage-quitting.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby MrWoollie on Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:05 am

FXD wrote:I would like to see an upvote/downvote like/dislike system for comment posts, like Reddit and comment sections on other websites do. That would be a good way for the community to show what they find to be quality content vs shit content, and all without name calling.

This is one I strongly disagree with. One of the major reasons that I do not have a facebook account is the like/dislike feature that basically leaves most people hunting likes for a personal ego boost. Facebook discourages serious debate and diversity and encourages a herd/sheep mentality. Opinions that diverge from the herd are vilified and flamed.

If this feature comes in then my next post after introduction would be my goodbye one.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby farmer joe on Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:55 am

Q, I love the history I have with EFH and I hope it stays up. I get paid in my work life for strong opinions so I do agree with TP that the ability to disagree, whilst keeping true to your beliefs, is a strong part of any online forum. I have learnt lots from the real footy nuts on here over the years though and I do miss some of them.
I also agree with Mead. I love the fact that the site is still up and I can send my kids towards it so they can see my opinion on things as varied as the mining tax, the three tier stand, the new stadium, Cuz and how good he actually was, how bad the purple freaks got and...my thoughts on the role of Matt Priddis.
You have done a great job. If the site doesn't continue, or it continues minus me, I will miss it.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby FXD on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:24 am

MrWoollie wrote:
FXD wrote:I would like to see an upvote/downvote like/dislike system for comment posts, like Reddit and comment sections on other websites do. That would be a good way for the community to show what they find to be quality content vs shit content, and all without name calling.

This is one I strongly disagree with. One of the major reasons that I do not have a facebook account is the like/dislike feature that basically leaves most people hunting likes for a personal ego boost. Facebook discourages serious debate and diversity and encourages a herd/sheep mentality. Opinions that diverge from the herd are vilified and flamed.

If this feature comes in then my next post after introduction would be my goodbye one.


Facebook does not have a dislike button so there is no balance of voting. I would refer you to Reddit, where the upvote/downvote system makes for good quality discussion in the smaller subreddits.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby The Boat on Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:00 am

I like the idea of removing anonymity by using real names, not nicknames.

It may result in making this place more of a community if the everyone is more accountable for what they type.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby WCE06 on Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:52 am

Footy is an emotional game so of course there's strong opinions the general tone of which rises and falls with the performance of the team. As others have said the line should be drawn under personal abuse of other posters and while criticism of players and coaches should be allowed its shouldn't go overboard. At the end of the day people just want to read about the team without having their eye's bleed.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby WCE06 on Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:58 am

Footy is an emotional game so of course there's strong opinions the general tone of which rises and falls with the performance of the team. As others have said the line should be drawn under personal abuse of other posters and while criticism of players and coaches shouldn't go overboard. At the end of the day every player who steps on an AFL ground has risen through hundreds of others and deserves respect. They are not robots. They do not choose themselves.
However strong or fast or skilled a knight is there are others who can match him. A man will win one tournament and fall quickly in the next. A slick spot on the grass may mean defeat, or what you had for supper the last night. A change in the wind may mean victory.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby mysterio on Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:26 pm

First off, im glad there is an EFH, a forum where you can share your views and opinions and discuss footy. It's good that people have different views as it makes for good discussion and I genuinely enjoy reading others thoughts and opinions on different aspects of our club and footy in general. Everyone sees the game from different view points and although you may not agree with some things they say, its interesting how other people see things compared to how you see it and it creates discussion whether you agree or disagree.

The aspect that I think needs ironing out, is that people need to be mindful that not everyone has the same opinion, thoughts and share them the same way you do. If their opinion differs to your it doesn't give you a right to downgrade their opinion or them as a supporter, because their opinion may not be seen as overly positive to you.

To be honest this thread/discussion should be the blueprint for the forum. Everyone has been able to share their thoughts in a constructive manner without no personal attacks, so it shows it can be done.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby HH on Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:10 pm

Ahhh the good old days of Bluey17, eagles_fan, meeting up at the Irish pub or the Vic and being on TV doing the old school Eagles song after the Eagles won through to the GF after beating Adelaide in the prelim final in 06. Of coining the Muppets nickname and making that stick. Of arguing with Schbitz 89 (spelling) and mattus, the dedicated Purplelites who would defend all things Dockers (including trolls) and [another website] (if you don't like it stop going there). Of enjoying TP's Dockers video and the Book of Woosha. Good times, good times. Like so many things in life it was easier back then when the EFH community was....well a community. People did know other posters and it was easier when the community was smaller.

Now it has grown and there are more and more new users. It is hard to know everyone. But I do suspect the new users who signed up to EFH were looking for something different than what Big Footy, for example, offers. And that, in my view, is an Internet forum where an informed discussion and debate about all things Eagles, footy, guernseys, politics, climate change etc etc can happen.

My view is that an Internet forum is like a democracy. You have free speech but it is tempered with not infringing on other peoples' rights. So no inciting violence, hatred etc etc. I think this means having very clear moderation rules, giving warnings when people breach those rules and banning them if they keep infringing. But also being very transparent with why posts are unacceptable (e.g. it constitutes personal abuse, it is defamatory etc) and making that public so people know where the lines are. If posters can't behave as adults and self-regulate their behaviour then they lose the right to be treated as such and need clear prescriptive rules in place and consequences if they breach those rules.
We want to move to Perth Stadium.
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby CouchPotato on Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:22 pm

Personally, I'm on here lurking more often than I am posting. I enjoy the discussions about the football and the team development, and ignore the political and other threads that can pop up.

Without a lot of the history of some of the narkiness (is that a word?) I actually didn't notice a lot of the personal niggle. Either way, if I can post my vote in the 'don't shut EFH down please' column I hope that helps :)
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Re: READ THIS NOW: The future of EFH.

Postby Voice of Reason on Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:16 am

I hope EFH survives for selfish reasons - it is part of my history as a human and as an Eagles supporter.

There are a number of underlying issues here:
- Mr Q is older and with more family responsibilities. I can quite understand the ebb of energy
- I have it too - older, much less likely to get into verbal stoushes in person or on the internet. Nowadays I'd just rather get along with people. The relationship is more important than any topic under discussion
- Standards appear to me to have improved - there were more arguments in the old EFH days! The threat of litigation, increasing PC requirements, better standards in society such as the tolerance and respect for issues like same sex marriage. People expect higher standards of posters
- People are very busy and under pressure. It's tough keeping your head above water in WA atm (just keeping a job for instance and sometimes your sanity)
- Regular posting is hard work
- As the internet grows exponentially, there are many places for potential keyboard warriors to practise their art.

So none of the above have anything much to do with football or the Eagles. Here goes:
- As a club, we have been incredibly successful over the years. People have high expectations
- We lost a GF in 2015. People naturally after 1991 and 2005 expected us to back up and win in 2016 or 2017, especially as we had a very young and apparently promising list in 2015, even having lost two key defenders to knees and playing the mobile small zone defence
- Such high hopes have been dashed, causing disappointment and frustration
- Because the Bulldogs did the unbelievable last year, we hoped we would be able to this year, but it's looking very unlikely. Mead's giving 20-1 - I don't bet and won't look it up, but I guess he'll have the best odds in town
- Supporters feel that in modern football a team that gets beaten repeatedly in the midfield cannot win a flag, yet the coaching staff persist in trying their best to go against that trend, since we have an excellent defence and a dangerous forward line. In fairness, having unluckily lost NicNat and Lycett, I can see why they are doing that, but I doubt it will work
- Frustration about the young list to old list change. Mitchell and Petrie have played quite well as individuals, but we lose the young player game time advantage
- Frustration and a degree of alienation from the club. To hear Nesbitt say of Powell-Pepper "that one slipped through" when he was playing for the aligned club East Perth is pretty damn annoying. Simmo is annoyingly reasonable in public, seeing the positives where he can - but that makes him a polished media performer who is doing his job!
- We'd like more honesty, we say, but is it realistic in the business of modern footy? I doubt it.

So I hope Mr Q can find the energy to carry on.
Do everything you can to minimise the effort involved.
Simplify the site so really there is just one page where people can discuss topics.
Warn then suspend people who can't play nice.

Thanks to everyone who plays and watches!
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