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RANT: one thing i hate.................

Discuss whatever you like, whenever you like, however you like

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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby Fat Side on Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:22 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:
farmer joe wrote:
WCE Booka 89 wrote:He's clearly not advocating for kids to get hit and hurt by moving cars. But they need to be made aware that they need to steer clear of the roads because the cars are going to hurt them more than they will the car.

Why put the focus on slowing down cars when there is (like in my circumstance) a way to prevent the incident ever arising (removing an access point on a major road when there is a much more serviceable access point else where)

Thanks mate. I couldn't of said it better.

Said what?
That makes even less sense than what was said before.

Unless you close the road completely, (and don't laugh, it has happened) you can never remove the risk completely. The lower speed limit simply mitigates the risk. End of story.


Yep. If school speed zones are a pain in the backside, choose an alternate route.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby domo_the_eagle on Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:30 am

Back in 2009 i was working in karratha as an undergrad engineer for one of the construction companies on the Pluto LNG project. Being the shitkicker (which i didnt care about because i was getting paid the same as a grad on the same uplift) meant i did alot of medial tasks like picking up someone from the airport or collecting a car etc etc. Anyway, the petrol was low on the car so i instead of going straight back to site, i decided to refill petrol at the damier pump station. on the way i noticed a copper with a speed gun, looked at my speedo and i was doing 64, thought fuck im over by 4km but thats only a fine. turns out it was a fkn school zone and school just resumed that day. i look over and the bloody school is right down the hill, so the top of the road was the same elevation as the school bloody roof. how the fuck are you meant to realise that, i was there for 3 months and never even spotted a school there or knew of it at all. the signage wasnt even clearly marked.

What can you do i copped my whack, 3 demerit points and $340.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby farmer joe on Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:36 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:
farmer joe wrote:
WCE Booka 89 wrote:He's clearly not advocating for kids to get hit and hurt by moving cars. But they need to be made aware that they need to steer clear of the roads because the cars are going to hurt them more than they will the car.

Why put the focus on slowing down cars when there is (like in my circumstance) a way to prevent the incident ever arising (removing an access point on a major road when there is a much more serviceable access point else where)

Thanks mate. I couldn't of said it better.

Said what?
That makes even less sense than what was said before.

Unless you close the road completely, (and don't laugh, it has happened) you can never remove the risk completely. The lower speed limit simply mitigates the risk. End of story.

That's my point Dazz. Why reduce to 40k's? Why is it that the number? Close the road, remove kids from the road or build the infrastructure to keep kids safe. But applying some randomly determined speed limit....now that's a nanny state.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby Mr Q on Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:20 am

It's not randomly determined. It is chosen because it is a speed at which the impact of an accident is dramatically reduced, both with reduced impact of a person is hit, and reduced stopping time.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby Bigbird on Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:03 am

As Mr Q said - probability of death on impact drops rapidly with speed until around 40km/h - around 20% versus 80-90% at 60km/h. It is not a random number.

I have school age children who attend one of the biggest Primary schools in WA (Aubin Grove). 99% of drivers are very respectful of reduced speeds, and most slow to the conditions which often require speeds of 20-30km/h. I don't understand what the issue is with slowing down and losing 15 seconds of your day to ensure the safety of our kids?

You see the odd car come through at 50-60km/h and the situation is that you have cars parked along verges, kids popping out from between those cars, a couple of dedicated crossings (manned) and a couple of hundred cars trying to get in or out of the school. For the few coming through at speed, it's both selfish and reckless.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby farmer joe on Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:36 am

Bigbird wrote: and the situation is that you have cars parked along verges, kids popping out from between those cars,

As I have said, if you are going to drop the speed also build the required infrastructure. Do ALL you can to protect our kids and don't rely on the easy way out. Cars should not be parked on verges (this should be policed at every school, every day) and kids shouldn't be "popping out" between cars.
That was my first point. Teach kids that getting hit by a car hurts and remove kids from unnecessary exposure to cars and roads.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby Bigbird on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:35 pm

farmer joe wrote:
Bigbird wrote: and the situation is that you have cars parked along verges, kids popping out from between those cars,

As I have said, if you are going to drop the speed also build the required infrastructure. Do ALL you can to protect our kids and don't rely on the easy way out. Cars should not be parked on verges (this should be policed at every school, every day) and kids shouldn't be "popping out" between cars.
That was my first point. Teach kids that getting hit by a car hurts and remove kids from unnecessary exposure to cars and roads.


No amount of teaching, policing or infrastructure is going to stop

(a) Idiots being idiots behind the wheel
(b) Children being children

It's simply an unrealistic and utopian viewpoint.

Looking at Aubin Grove, they have:

- 2x manned crossings (Traffic Wardens)
- Speed humps along roads
- Unmissable signage
- Recent redevelopment to increase parking bays and improve traffic flow and general safety (to reduce vehicles parked on verge and improve visibility)
- School employees regularly on the scene, providing support, directing traffic etc.

What kind of infrastructure would you suggest? Keeping in mind we are talking about public roads with housing. To then replicate that at every school (and fund it...)....I think you will find a massive amount of money has been spent around schools on infrastructure to provide adequate traffic and pedestrian control.

If you have kids, you will know that one of the first lessons you teach is road safety (along with stranger danger). Kids are impulsive though and tend only to listen to when it suits them (regardless of how much you beat them :lol: ). Picture a mother leaving school, pushing a pram, with a 2 year old toddler demanding attention and a five year old child in tow. Said child sees friend from school on the other side of the road and makes a dash. It's impulsive and a common situation for a parent to find themselves in. Now if that parent is even slightly distracted...you have a recipe for disaster. Times that by how ever many school enrolments we have nationwide, twice a day, five days a week - situations like this are inevitable and you simply can't police against it.

You can build fences, tunnels, speed cushions, add signage...whatever....you can spend billions and at the end of the day, kids will be kids. Safety around schools is dependent on those caring for the kids and those driving vehicles in the vicinity. It massive part of this comes back to human behaviour...and as adults, we have to be responsible.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby farmer joe on Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:35 pm

Bigbird wrote:
No amount of teaching, policing or infrastructure is going to stop

(a) Idiots being idiots behind the wheel
(b) Children being children

It's simply an unrealistic and utopian viewpoint.

Looking at Aubin Grove, they have:

- 2x manned crossings (Traffic Wardens)
- Speed humps along roads
- Unmissable signage
- Recent redevelopment to increase parking bays and improve traffic flow and general safety (to reduce vehicles parked on verge and improve visibility)
- School employees regularly on the scene, providing support, directing traffic etc.

What kind of infrastructure would you suggest? Keeping in mind we are talking about public roads with housing. To then replicate that at every school (and fund it...)....I think you will find a massive amount of money has been spent around schools on infrastructure to provide adequate traffic and pedestrian control.

If you have kids, you will know that one of the first lessons you teach is road safety (along with stranger danger). Kids are impulsive though and tend only to listen to when it suits them (regardless of how much you beat them :lol: ). Picture a mother leaving school, pushing a pram, with a 2 year old toddler demanding attention and a five year old child in tow. Said child sees friend from school on the other side of the road and makes a dash. It's impulsive and a common situation for a parent to find themselves in. Now if that parent is even slightly distracted...you have a recipe for disaster. Times that by how ever many school enrolments we have nationwide, twice a day, five days a week - situations like this are inevitable and you simply can't police against it.

You can build fences, tunnels, speed cushions, add signage...whatever....you can spend billions and at the end of the day, kids will be kids. Safety around schools is dependent on those caring for the kids and those driving vehicles in the vicinity. It massive part of this comes back to human behaviour...and as adults, we have to be responsible.

I agree totally. Caring for kids is paramount and it is a responsibility that shouldn't be delegated. Hence my shake of head with comments like parents parking on verges. Lets teach our kids to be responsible and to obey rules and laws. My view, and I do understand it is a different view, is that the establishment of a school zone lets parents become complacent due to the thinking that the school zone will "save their kids". But lets agree to disagree.
And yep, I have a truckload of kids of my own.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby Bigbird on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:32 pm

farmer joe wrote:I agree totally. Caring for kids is paramount and it is a responsibility that shouldn't be delegated. Hence my shake of head with comments like parents parking on verges. Lets teach our kids to be responsible and to obey rules and laws. My view, and I do understand it is a different view, is that the establishment of a school zone lets parents become complacent due to the thinking that the school zone will "save their kids". But lets agree to disagree.
And yep, I have a truckload of kids of my own.


I certainly don't disagree with your comment about complacency. You see it every day - parents a little 'too' relaxed. But that's human nature at work again. I'm sure Charles Darwin will work it all out in good time.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby Ric on Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:57 am

In Canada, British Columbia at least, school zones are 30kph. Is it such a big deal having to slow down for a short distance when kids lives are at stake? Kids are unpredictable and their judgement can be not so good, so we need to help the situation, not hinder it.
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