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RANT: one thing i hate.................

Discuss whatever you like, whenever you like, however you like

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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby CouchPotato on Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:39 pm

Fat Side wrote:
WCE06 wrote:
CouchPotato wrote:Car Salesmen. Trying to buy a new car as we expand the family, and it is impossible to get a straight answer from them. Have had so many comments like 'this is our best offer, there is no profit left on this for us' and then (after a counter offer from a competitor) they somehow manage to find another few thousand to drop off. Amazing.


I love buying cars, but then again I expect them to be pricks. Always remember you have the power to simply walk out.

My strategy. Consider the posted price their "ambit claim" its not worth the paper its written on. I always ask the dealer what his best price is which they almost never want to do. Usually they will counter with "make me an offer" which you should NEVER do. Just shuffle your feet, look at the missus and start making noises that you want to go away and think about it. If you can get the salesman to make an offer you can be pretty confident you are in the ballpark. Don't for the love of god accept. Even if its better than you had hoped - leave the yard. Get something to eat whatever on the premise that you are considering other options.

If you want the car come back but remain non committal. Start at the price he/she stated earlier, but ask if they will accept slightly less, then ask for all the fruit ie "theoretically if we went in at that price.. would you throw in roof racks, tow ball, bonnet protectors, free servicing through the warranty, floormats" you name it. You can generally squeeze most of that crap into the deal, but its NOT over even when you have accepted the deal.

The next ruse will be the salesman taking his "offer" to the dealer principal which of course he will refuse. This is the time to man up. They will come back with a counter offer that's close enough that you will be thinking its not worth "risking the deal". Say it was originally a $62 car you have haggled down to $55k with a few knick knacks thrown in. They might come back and say $57k and its a deal. They will pressure you "we are so close" what's $2k. Never forget $2K is a lot of money for you and its peanuts for them - let those pricks move. They will because the salesman has known exactly what he can offer all along.


Who pays $55k for a car? too much money.


This is the problem though - why do we need to have this stupid dance of offer - counter offer bullshit. Why can't they just offer a reasonable price to begin with?

Reminds me of being in Bali and haggling for a Bintang Singlet, except it's less fun and I'm more likely to be ripped off.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby Eliot Mess on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:46 pm

CouchPotato wrote:
Fat Side wrote:
WCE06 wrote:I love buying cars, but then again I expect them to be pricks. Always remember you have the power to simply walk out.

My strategy. Consider the posted price their "ambit claim" its not worth the paper its written on. I always ask the dealer what his best price is which they almost never want to do. Usually they will counter with "make me an offer" which you should NEVER do. Just shuffle your feet, look at the missus and start making noises that you want to go away and think about it. If you can get the salesman to make an offer you can be pretty confident you are in the ballpark. Don't for the love of god accept. Even if its better than you had hoped - leave the yard. Get something to eat whatever on the premise that you are considering other options.

If you want the car come back but remain non committal. Start at the price he/she stated earlier, but ask if they will accept slightly less, then ask for all the fruit ie "theoretically if we went in at that price.. would you throw in roof racks, tow ball, bonnet protectors, free servicing through the warranty, floormats" you name it. You can generally squeeze most of that crap into the deal, but its NOT over even when you have accepted the deal.

The next ruse will be the salesman taking his "offer" to the dealer principal which of course he will refuse. This is the time to man up. They will come back with a counter offer that's close enough that you will be thinking its not worth "risking the deal". Say it was originally a $62 car you have haggled down to $55k with a few knick knacks thrown in. They might come back and say $57k and its a deal. They will pressure you "we are so close" what's $2k. Never forget $2K is a lot of money for you and its peanuts for them - let those pricks move. They will because the salesman has known exactly what he can offer all along.


Who pays $55k for a car? too much money.


This is the problem though - why do we need to have this stupid dance of offer - counter offer bullshit. Why can't they just offer a reasonable price to begin with?

Reminds me of being in Bali and haggling for a Bintang Singlet, except it's less fun and I'm more likely to be ripped off.


Because in their experience it works. Even if it only worked half time, they'd be telling themselves it was the right approach.
And all the yards conspire to do it. It's like a subculture.

I even had a guy fuck me around after I'd come in to sign up for the advertised special new car price; what could be simpler? Couldn't help himself. I walked.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby domo_the_eagle on Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:08 pm

WCE06 wrote:
CouchPotato wrote:Car Salesmen. Trying to buy a new car as we expand the family, and it is impossible to get a straight answer from them. Have had so many comments like 'this is our best offer, there is no profit left on this for us' and then (after a counter offer from a competitor) they somehow manage to find another few thousand to drop off. Amazing.


I love buying cars, but then again I expect them to be pricks. Always remember you have the power to simply walk out.

My strategy. Consider the posted price their "ambit claim" its not worth the paper its written on. I always ask the dealer what his best price is which they almost never want to do. Usually they will counter with "make me an offer" which you should NEVER do. Just shuffle your feet, look at the missus and start making noises that you want to go away and think about it. If you can get the salesman to make an offer you can be pretty confident you are in the ballpark. Don't for the love of god accept. Even if its better than you had hoped - leave the yard. Get something to eat whatever on the premise that you are considering other options.

If you want the car come back but remain non committal. Start at the price he/she stated earlier, but ask if they will accept slightly less, then ask for all the fruit ie "theoretically if we went in at that price.. would you throw in roof racks, tow ball, bonnet protectors, free servicing through the warranty, floormats" you name it. You can generally squeeze most of that crap into the deal, but its NOT over even when you have accepted the deal.

The next ruse will be the salesman taking his "offer" to the dealer principal which of course he will refuse. This is the time to man up. They will come back with a counter offer that's close enough that you will be thinking its not worth "risking the deal". Say it was originally a $62 car you have haggled down to $55k with a few knick knacks thrown in. They might come back and say $57k and its a deal. They will pressure you "we are so close" what's $2k. Never forget $2K is a lot of money for you and its peanuts for them - let those pricks move. They will because the salesman has known exactly what he can offer all along.


Would this apply to new cars / 1 to 2 year old cars aswell? Looking to get an suv type car for the wife, with the little one it will be easier to get him in and out of the car.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby domo_the_eagle on Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:08 pm

WCE06 wrote:
CouchPotato wrote:Car Salesmen. Trying to buy a new car as we expand the family, and it is impossible to get a straight answer from them. Have had so many comments like 'this is our best offer, there is no profit left on this for us' and then (after a counter offer from a competitor) they somehow manage to find another few thousand to drop off. Amazing.


I love buying cars, but then again I expect them to be pricks. Always remember you have the power to simply walk out.

My strategy. Consider the posted price their "ambit claim" its not worth the paper its written on. I always ask the dealer what his best price is which they almost never want to do. Usually they will counter with "make me an offer" which you should NEVER do. Just shuffle your feet, look at the missus and start making noises that you want to go away and think about it. If you can get the salesman to make an offer you can be pretty confident you are in the ballpark. Don't for the love of god accept. Even if its better than you had hoped - leave the yard. Get something to eat whatever on the premise that you are considering other options.

If you want the car come back but remain non committal. Start at the price he/she stated earlier, but ask if they will accept slightly less, then ask for all the fruit ie "theoretically if we went in at that price.. would you throw in roof racks, tow ball, bonnet protectors, free servicing through the warranty, floormats" you name it. You can generally squeeze most of that crap into the deal, but its NOT over even when you have accepted the deal.

The next ruse will be the salesman taking his "offer" to the dealer principal which of course he will refuse. This is the time to man up. They will come back with a counter offer that's close enough that you will be thinking its not worth "risking the deal". Say it was originally a $62 car you have haggled down to $55k with a few knick knacks thrown in. They might come back and say $57k and its a deal. They will pressure you "we are so close" what's $2k. Never forget $2K is a lot of money for you and its peanuts for them - let those pricks move. They will because the salesman has known exactly what he can offer all along.


Would this apply to new cars / 1 to 2 year old cars aswell? Looking to get an suv type car for the wife, with the little one it will be easier to get him in and out of the car.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby domo_the_eagle on Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:09 pm

Obviously the hard haggling only works if you had the cash to pay outright
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby MaxyB on Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:48 pm

It's really not that hard.

Spend a bit of time on the myriad of car sales (hint) sites and get a feel for prices for the make and model you are chasing.

Buy from a reputable dealer - you will pay a bit more but have a slightly better security blanket.

Buy Privately - Every chance you can pick up a bargain but my experience suggests that most sellers have an over inflated sense of worth for their pride and joy's worth.

Not sure what your buying but if it's under 20k, wipe at least 2k off the windscreen as a starting point. Then come down from there.

Suck air in through a clenched jaw and say no (not at the same time).

Bottom line is to stick to your budget.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby Hamburger on Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:31 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:Obviously the hard haggling only works if you had the cash to pay outright


Funnily enough my recent experience suggests otherwise. We have bought the last two cars new for cash upfront. When I asked for a discount because no need for finance I was told that they would consider a discount IF I took finance. I assume it's because they get the money anyway as interest on the loan? Really had to hunt around and haggle before getting a reduction at all.
Mind you that might just be a bit different now that the boom is done. Apparently car sales are way down here in WA so you would think you would get a good deal.
If buying second hand I strongly endorse what Maxy B says about using a reputable dealer...you will pay more up front but have much better security if there are any faults with the vehicle that were not obvious when you bought it.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby Total Package on Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:38 pm

CouchPotato wrote:This is the problem though - why do we need to have this stupid dance of offer - counter offer bullshit. Why can't they just offer a reasonable price to begin with?

Reminds me of being in Bali and haggling for a Bintang Singlet, except it's less fun and I'm more likely to be ripped off.


I agree and not just with cars. I refuse to haggle... and basically use a "blind auction" type of haggling myself to put the ball in their court. Either they give me the best possible price straight away or they lose my business.

I did it when I was looking for a new TV I had been doing some shopping around... got what I knew was going to be around the best price at the Sony store... then went to Harvey Norman and told them to give me their best possible price on a new TV... and if it was lower than what I had just been given I would buy it there and then... but they only had 1 chance to give me the best price. The price they gave me was slightly more... so I said "No too high".

Harvey Norman then had the audacity to try and match the price I was given and throw in some USB cables... maybe they didn't understand the concept of "Best Price" so I went to Retravision... did the same thing based on what Harvey Norman offered and they too were slightly over and then tried to haggle with me. LOL.. idiots.

In both cases I told them they had tried to rip me off as it obviously wasn't the best price they could do.... if they could still come down afterwards... and walked away and bought my TV from Sony. I may have cost myself a few dollars... but I made a point.
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby FXD on Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:55 pm

CouchPotato wrote:Car Salesmen. Trying to buy a new car as we expand the family, and it is impossible to get a straight answer from them. Have had so many comments like 'this is our best offer, there is no profit left on this for us' and then (after a counter offer from a competitor) they somehow manage to find another few thousand to drop off. Amazing.

Blatant lies about stock availability (trying to get rid off old / lower quality stock) and amazing add-on fees at the last minute.

We've been at multiple dealers and come to an agreement, then there's a final contract offer with a lower quality car, at the same price, or there's all sorts of new fees included. Why on earth would we accept the lower quality car after finally agreeing a deal? Do they think we wouldn't notice? Seriously...

I get that they are trying to get the best deal for them, as everyone is in life, but blatant lies and bullshit really pisses me off. Don't treat people like idiots. Buying a car is easily the worst retail experience going around at the moment.


What do you mean 'lower quality car'? Do you mean a trim level down, or a completely different make/model? I can't fathom how you could make a deal on the mid-range trim, and then they trot out the entry-level when the papers are due for signing. Do most people not notice??
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby FXD on Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:00 am

Eliot Mess wrote:
I even had a guy fuck me around after I'd come in to sign up for the advertised special new car price; what could be simpler? Couldn't help himself. I walked.


What are the details of this?
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby farmer joe on Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:53 am

Never forget the highest paid person in a car yard is the finance guy. You might beat the "cost" of the car down by a bit but if you get burnt on a dodgy finance deal what have you really achieved? Check this link out and tell me you don't go, WTF and how is that legal?
http://www.smh.com.au/business/want-a-b ... qswtd.html
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby CouchPotato on Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:12 am

FXD wrote:
CouchPotato wrote:Car Salesmen. Trying to buy a new car as we expand the family, and it is impossible to get a straight answer from them. Have had so many comments like 'this is our best offer, there is no profit left on this for us' and then (after a counter offer from a competitor) they somehow manage to find another few thousand to drop off. Amazing.

Blatant lies about stock availability (trying to get rid off old / lower quality stock) and amazing add-on fees at the last minute.

We've been at multiple dealers and come to an agreement, then there's a final contract offer with a lower quality car, at the same price, or there's all sorts of new fees included. Why on earth would we accept the lower quality car after finally agreeing a deal? Do they think we wouldn't notice? Seriously...

I get that they are trying to get the best deal for them, as everyone is in life, but blatant lies and bullshit really pisses me off. Don't treat people like idiots. Buying a car is easily the worst retail experience going around at the moment.


What do you mean 'lower quality car'? Do you mean a trim level down, or a completely different make/model? I can't fathom how you could make a deal on the mid-range trim, and then they trot out the entry-level when the papers are due for signing. Do most people not notice??


I mean a trim level down. They obviously had many of those in stock, and none of the trim level we needed. So instead of saying 'sorry, you'll have to wait for the car you want' they tried to tell us they'd be happy to match that offer on the trim level down. I laughed (assuming he was joking) but he was very much serious. I then explained that if we were going to get the trim level down we would (a) have asked for that car in the first place and (b) we would be starting the whole negotiation again, not paying almost market rates for the car.

Insanity.

Anyways, it's all over with now thank god. This Rant board really helped me through the darker times :lol:
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby WCE06 on Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:52 am

domo_the_eagle wrote:Would this apply to new cars / 1 to 2 year old cars as well? Looking to get an suv type car for the wife, with the little one it will be easier to get him in and out of the car.


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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:02 am

CouchPotato wrote:
FXD wrote:
CouchPotato wrote:Car Salesmen. Trying to buy a new car as we expand the family, and it is impossible to get a straight answer from them. Have had so many comments like 'this is our best offer, there is no profit left on this for us' and then (after a counter offer from a competitor) they somehow manage to find another few thousand to drop off. Amazing.

Blatant lies about stock availability (trying to get rid off old / lower quality stock) and amazing add-on fees at the last minute.

We've been at multiple dealers and come to an agreement, then there's a final contract offer with a lower quality car, at the same price, or there's all sorts of new fees included. Why on earth would we accept the lower quality car after finally agreeing a deal? Do they think we wouldn't notice? Seriously...

I get that they are trying to get the best deal for them, as everyone is in life, but blatant lies and bullshit really pisses me off. Don't treat people like idiots. Buying a car is easily the worst retail experience going around at the moment.


What do you mean 'lower quality car'? Do you mean a trim level down, or a completely different make/model? I can't fathom how you could make a deal on the mid-range trim, and then they trot out the entry-level when the papers are due for signing. Do most people not notice??


I mean a trim level down. They obviously had many of those in stock, and none of the trim level we needed. So instead of saying 'sorry, you'll have to wait for the car you want' they tried to tell us they'd be happy to match that offer on the trim level down. I laughed (assuming he was joking) but he was very much serious. I then explained that if we were going to get the trim level down we would (a) have asked for that car in the first place and (b) we would be starting the whole negotiation again, not paying almost market rates for the car.

Insanity.

Anyways, it's all over with now thank god. This Rant board really helped me through the darker times :lol:


Did you offer to pay in cash? But seeing as you were dropping trim level, you'd drop the "trim level" of your notes too? So I mean he is essence getting the exact same amount of notes, but instead of them being green and of a higher quality, they are yellow and worth slightly less. :lol:
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Re: RANT: one thing i hate.................

Postby domo_the_eagle on Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:30 pm

GoFundMe pages, especially ones to raise funeral costs.
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