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WA State Election 2017

Discuss whatever you like, whenever you like, however you like

Moderators: Streaker, Mr Q

Who will you be voting for?

Liberal
6
27%
Labour
6
27%
Green
2
9%
One Nation
6
27%
Nationals
1
5%
Shooters, Fishers, Idiots
1
5%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 22

Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Ric on Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:35 pm

Mr Q wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:Coalition has done a "reasonable" job, but they've had their 8 years. Some people are never happy and just vote for a change.


You don't get a result like that if they'd done a reasonable job. That swing is almost unprecedented. They lost 16% on their *primary* vote and it didn't go to One Nation. That's baseball bats and then going back and getting the cricket bats as well.

I *way* underestimated the anger out there. And I'm a lefty.


the Western Power issue did all the damage, especially after we had endured 8 years of power increases, the rest, yeah, they did a reasonable job.A few diehard Lefties I know personally would agree with you, but then, they never acknowledge any good that's done and never acknowledge the damage their side has done.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Mr Q on Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:15 am

Respectfully Ric, that's bullshit. What we're looking at here is the biggest swing against a sitting government in WA history. That doesn't come from one issue, but an electorate pissed off beyond belief. There was one seat with a 23% swing. Several more over 18%. That's a bloodbath. WA Inc didn't get that level of response. The Coalition were as rejected as any government has ever been.

You can dismiss things as "a few leftys", but you can be assured that the Liberal Party both locally and nationally won't be. Locally there will be blood on the floor in Liberal HQ. Federally they will be in a massive panic that this result is the canary in the coal mine.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby farmer joe on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:09 am

Mr Q wrote:Respectfully Ric, that's bullshit. What we're looking at here is the biggest swing against a sitting government in WA history. That doesn't come from one issue, but an electorate pissed off beyond belief. There was one seat with a 23% swing. Several more over 18%. That's a bloodbath. WA Inc didn't get that level of response. The Coalition were as rejected as any government has ever been.

You can dismiss things as "a few leftys", but you can be assured that the Liberal Party both locally and nationally won't be. Locally there will be blood on the floor in Liberal HQ. Federally they will be in a massive panic that this result is the canary in the coal mine.

Yep, I agree. The number of life long liberals I know that turned away from the LP is amazing. The 'brand' of the LP is being lost as it sells it soul to big business and its vested interests. I hope Grylls gets up in Pilbara. My admiration for taking on the mining lobby is huge and we need more leaders like him.
Well done to the ALP on a disciplined and focused campaign and a strong period in opposition. Government will be much tougher.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:21 am

Mr Q wrote:Respectfully Ric, that's bullshit. What we're looking at here is the biggest swing against a sitting government in WA history. That doesn't come from one issue, but an electorate pissed off beyond belief. There was one seat with a 23% swing. Several more over 18%. That's a bloodbath. WA Inc didn't get that level of response. The Coalition were as rejected as any government has ever been.

You can dismiss things as "a few leftys", but you can be assured that the Liberal Party both locally and nationally won't be. Locally there will be blood on the floor in Liberal HQ. Federally they will be in a massive panic that this result is the canary in the coal mine.

No, you can gloat all you want, its your turn, but you're still overstating it. It is simply the nature of the beast.
The Coalition in the new parliament will likely be about on par with with Labour after the last election, around 19~20 seats. Did you accuse WA Voters of bashing your beloved Labor party with assorted bats after the last election?
It's just the way our system works.

What I find a little ironic, is that the last Liberal government was defeated because it refused to preference One Nation. They tried to avoid that this time, but ON didn't get as much of the vote as was anticipated.

End of the day, it was time for a change. But what I am really thankful for is that despite the big swing against the government, the Vegan-Hippies have picked up practically none of it.
God knows what will happen in the upper house, but hopefully we can have a government that functions without selling out to the Greens.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:30 am

Mr Q wrote: Federally they will be in a massive panic that this result is the canary in the coal mine.

It's funny the way we often seem to vote in contrary directions between State & Federal.
But I still think the Federal government is on shaky ground. Joolya & Kev were on the nose, but now i think the Libs are failing to capture the imagination of the nation. They're boring and seem out of touch, and I think too many factors are "coming home to roost." Too many jobs lost, health care failing, etc.
If Labor could produce a credible leader they could easily take the next election. Otherwise they are waiting on the electorate to hate Turnbull more than Shorten. It's a toss up between tossers.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Fat Side on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:57 am

Ric wrote:
Mr Q wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:Coalition has done a "reasonable" job, but they've had their 8 years. Some people are never happy and just vote for a change.


You don't get a result like that if they'd done a reasonable job. That swing is almost unprecedented. They lost 16% on their *primary* vote and it didn't go to One Nation. That's baseball bats and then going back and getting the cricket bats as well.

I *way* underestimated the anger out there. And I'm a lefty.


the Western Power issue did all the damage, especially after we had endured 8 years of power increases, the rest, yeah, they did a reasonable job.A few diehard Lefties I know personally would agree with you, but then, they never acknowledge any good that's done and never acknowledge the damage their side has done.


You referring to Barnett? He reckons that 'its time' was the reason for the loss. That is clearly head in the sand stuff or just outright denial.

He has run the finances off the rails to such an extent that it will take a generation to fix. No acknowledgement there.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Fat Side on Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:02 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:
Mr Q wrote:Respectfully Ric, that's bullshit. What we're looking at here is the biggest swing against a sitting government in WA history. That doesn't come from one issue, but an electorate pissed off beyond belief. There was one seat with a 23% swing. Several more over 18%. That's a bloodbath. WA Inc didn't get that level of response. The Coalition were as rejected as any government has ever been.

You can dismiss things as "a few leftys", but you can be assured that the Liberal Party both locally and nationally won't be. Locally there will be blood on the floor in Liberal HQ. Federally they will be in a massive panic that this result is the canary in the coal mine.


The Coalition in the new parliament will likely be about on par with with Labour after the last election, around 19~20 seats.


The Libs will be lucky to get 15 seats
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Ric on Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:39 am

Fat Side wrote:
Ric wrote:

the Western Power issue did all the damage, especially after we had endured 8 years of power increases, the rest, yeah, they did a reasonable job.A few diehard Lefties I know personally would agree with you, but then, they never acknowledge any good that's done and never acknowledge the damage their side has done.


You referring to Barnett? He reckons that 'its time' was the reason for the loss. That is clearly head in the sand stuff or just outright denial.

He has run the finances off the rails to such an extent that it will take a generation to fix. No acknowledgement there.


Pity you couldn't apply the same test to your beloved Rudd and Gillard, who decimated the Aust economy to such an extent that it will take generationS to sort out, if ever. At least Barnet, depite the debts, undertook much needed projects, much of which were neglected in a growing population during Carpenters era
You fall in the diehard Lefty category I mentioned previously where no acknowledgement made for achievements from the opposite side to your's and no fault given to your side where it is justified. Very hypocritical,but to be expected of you.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Fat Side on Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:46 am

Ric wrote:
Fat Side wrote:
Ric wrote:

the Western Power issue did all the damage, especially after we had endured 8 years of power increases, the rest, yeah, they did a reasonable job.A few diehard Lefties I know personally would agree with you, but then, they never acknowledge any good that's done and never acknowledge the damage their side has done.


You referring to Barnett? He reckons that 'its time' was the reason for the loss. That is clearly head in the sand stuff or just outright denial.

He has run the finances off the rails to such an extent that it will take a generation to fix. No acknowledgement there.


Pity you couldn't apply the same test to your beloved Rudd and Gillard, who decimated the Aust economy to such an extent that it will take generationS to sort out, if ever. At least Barnet, depite the debts, undertook much needed project...


Ah yes, the convenient 'good debt and bad debt' chestnut that rolls off the tongues of the hard right conservatives justifying criticism of Rudd/Gillard and praise for Turnbull/Barnett. The hypocrisy is laughable.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby jourgo on Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:02 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Ric wrote:Pity you couldn't apply the same test to your beloved Rudd and Gillard, who decimated the Aust economy to such an extent that it will take generationS to sort out, if ever. At least Barnet, depite the debts, undertook much needed project...


Ah yes, the convenient 'good debt and bad debt' chestnut that rolls off the tongues of the hard right conservatives justifying criticism of Rudd/Gillard and praise for Turnbull/Barnett. The hypocrisy is laughable.


I take it by you offering no defense of Rudd/Gillard that you agree?
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Fat Side on Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:53 pm

jourgo wrote:
Fat Side wrote:
Ric wrote:Pity you couldn't apply the same test to your beloved Rudd and Gillard, who decimated the Aust economy to such an extent that it will take generationS to sort out, if ever. At least Barnet, depite the debts, undertook much needed project...


Ah yes, the convenient 'good debt and bad debt' chestnut that rolls off the tongues of the hard right conservatives justifying criticism of Rudd/Gillard and praise for Turnbull/Barnett. The hypocrisy is laughable.


I take it by you offering no defense of Rudd/Gillard that you agree?


Rudd/Gillard ran up enormous unnecessary debt. Like Barnett (and I've said this before) additional debt had to be taken, but like the second handout that Swan gave to everyone, a lot of Barnett's spending could not be justified. I never voted for Gillard, or Labor since 2007 for that reason. Unlike the far righties, I applied the same standard to Barnett.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Mr Q on Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:48 pm

Ric wrote:Pity you couldn't apply the same test to your beloved Rudd and Gillard, who decimated the Aust economy to such an extent


The decimation wasn't done by Rudd or Gillard, rather by John Howard. He squandered billions on middle class welfare during his time in office, resulting in a massive additional structural overhead for an incoming government - one they could do nothing about, as they had to counter the GFC as well as the side effects of that middle class welfare - namely that the average Australian had become dependent on it. Oh, and a lot less in the kitty to use to avoid the effects of the GFC - the much vaunted "surplus" that the Howard government left wasn't even 10% of what they could and should have left behind. But no, we had to have more and more bogan bribes to keep them in office (to put it in perspective, the Howard government was going to make private school fees tax deductable if they won in 2007....).

Whether or not Barnett could have avoided the deficit disaster that he led WA into I don't know. Quite possibly not. However, the Liberal Party have for decades made a point of how they don't run massive deficits, how they alone can balance the books and that debt and deficit is an ALP thing (surely you haven't forgotten the 2013 Federal election yet). The Barnett Government abysmally failed to do that. I'd also point out that he was a minister in the WA Liberal Government that accepted the GST configuration of the Howard Government, so there is no way that the ALP can be blamed for WA's measly GST share - it was all the WA Libs and the Federal Libs.

Anyway, the Barnett government is dead, buried, exhumed and cremated again, then the ashes dumped down the toilet. The swing in that election shows that the public thought they were hopeless.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Ric on Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:23 pm

Fat Side wrote:
jourgo wrote:

I take it by you offering no defense of Rudd/Gillard that you agree?


Rudd/Gillard ran up enormous unnecessary debt. Like Barnett (and I've said this before) additional debt had to be taken, but like the second handout that Swan gave to everyone, a lot of Barnett's spending could not be justified. I never voted for Gillard, or Labor since 2007 for that reason. Unlike the far righties, I applied the same standard to Barnett.


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I can't believe this comment. Would you look around this fair City with open peepers?

When we had lots of extra buck$, there were numerous and repeated calls to spend the bastard on infrastructure while we could: "
What's the point of a positive Budget balance if you don't use the money to improve things?" they yelled.

So they took on that message.

You didn't want Fiona Stanley Hosp? (Pricey: blame the CFMEU for the overruns)
You didn't want a new Childrens' Hosp + Car Park?
The Butler Rail Project?
New Football Stadium (wherever)
New Busport?
Challenger Stadium Upgrade?
Perth Cultural Precinct upgrade?
Busselton Hospital Redevelopment?
QEII Cancer Centre Buildings?
Queen Elizabeth ll Medical Centre Multi Deck Car Park?
Perth Police Complex?
Perth Arena?
New PathWest Laboratory?
New WA Museum?
Perth City Link development works?
New FESA Headquarters (Success)?
State Theatre Centre?
Rockingham/Kwinana Hospital Redevelopment?
Hedland Regional Resource Centre?
Kalgoorlie Regional Resource Centre Redevelopment?
AK Reserve Basketball Stadium?
Midland Public Hospital?
Redevelopment Applecross High School

Primary schools under construction to open in 2016?
Annie's Landing Primary School, Ellenbrook - $14m
Rivergums Primary School, Baldivis - $18.2m
Trinity Primary School, Alkimos - $14m
Harrisdale Primary School, Harrisdale - $14m
Secondary College under construction to open in 2017
Harrisdale Senior High School Stage 1 - $57m

New primary schools to be constructed under Private Public Partnership to open in 2017?
Alkimos South West Primary School, Alkimos - $14m
Landsdale East Primary School, Landsdale - $14m
Baldivis North Primary School, Baldivis - $14m
Byford South West Primary School, Byford - $14m

221 kilometres of off-road shared paths and 71km of on-road bike lanes, and more coming?

There'd be more if I kept hunting, like Justice infrastructure and I don't know how the CBD stuff is paid for.


The list, courtesy of EM, is by no means a comprehensive one and of that list, which items by your estimation are unnecessary??
Oh, you can add the airport/Forrestfield link just recently started.

Not praising Barnett as I was one of his biggest critics early on as so many projects I was unaware of, not completed and not in our area to see they were actually being built. Still not praising him as I believe he went too far too quickly, too soon, hence the large debts.
As far as Turnbull is concerned, certainly not praising him, but to be fair, he has inherited a huge debt that is added to with accumulating interest, bugger all money coming into the coffers, a global slow down which is adding to the reduced revenue intake and a hostile Labor/green senate that is determined to see that he does nothing to reduce the debt.Shorten is Simon Crean mark2, whinge, whinge, whinge and offering nothing.

On the flip side, Carpenter/Ripper did very little with the money that was coming in during their time and Shorten's policies during the leadup to the last election showed without doubt that he'd learnt nothing from the Rudd/Gillard fiasco and had he won the last election it would have been guaranteed that the debt level would have been far worse than it is now.
So no hypocrisy here pal, just stating the way it is and was.
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Ric on Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:26 pm

Mr Q wrote:Respectfully Ric, that's bullshit. What we're looking at here is the biggest swing against a sitting government in WA history. That doesn't come from one issue, but an electorate pissed off beyond belief. There was one seat with a 23% swing. Several more over 18%. That's a bloodbath. WA Inc didn't get that level of response. The Coalition were as rejected as any government has ever been.

You can dismiss things as "a few leftys", but you can be assured that the Liberal Party both locally and nationally won't be. Locally there will be blood on the floor in Liberal HQ. Federally they will be in a massive panic that this result is the canary in the coal mine.


What ever the issues ( perhaps you can enlighten me on what they are), couldn't have been many, as the Libs majority increased in the previous election when the boom had already finished. What changed apart from unemployment?

Watching the interviews of Labor candidates who had won their seat, they all pointed to the fact that Western Power was a major factor for Labor's win.

So I'll list a few factors that I can see as contributing with Western Power, IMO, being the top one

1. WP sell off
2. possible Water Corp sell off
3 unemployment
4 lack of services (not that I personally have complaints there)
5 bigger percentage of swinging voters
6 Barnetts perceived arrogance
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Re: WA State Election 2017

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:40 pm

Give it up Ric.

There are those of us who assess parties, policies, and politicians on their merits.
Then you have the looney left, whose brains just don't work that way. (I suspect it is all the pot.)
They despise Howard and Costello precisely because they were so successful. Whilst at the same time they voice strongest support for the worst of the Labor leaders.

They criticise Barnett for spending debt on infrastructure, but were happy for Burke, Dowding, and Lawrence to cripple the state wasting money on crap.

I imagine there must be people equally as looney on the right.

Gallop did an ok job. Bit to smarmy for my liking, but was a good consensus leader. Carpenter was an egotistical dictator, which problem explains how we ended up with moron like Ripper bungling the books.
Even at the last election, I preferred many of Labour's ideas. So we'll give Mr Magoo a run and see how he goes.
Hopefully he will abandon some of the stupider ideas, and fill his cabinet with capable people instead of rabid ferals.

Who knows, maybe with their penchant for Trains, Labor will be able to sort out the Burswood transport fiasco.
Last edited by Crazy Dazz on Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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