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Sun, 17 Sep 2017 • 17:25 WST
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Round 11 - WCE v GCS

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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby domo_the_eagle on Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:39 pm

Bigbird wrote:How did everyone rate McKenzie's game? He did some good things and I thought overall he was OK defensively. A few shockers in there too...but far from our worst and it gives me hope that maybe he can find something.


Yeh i thought he performed ok. Still barrass is the future.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby farmer joe on Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:18 pm

aquila audax wrote:For those that are interested as to when the start of our troubles as a club began , I would recommend this article ( https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/ex-eag ... -ya-149302 )

QUOTE
"Ex-Eagle Cook is greatest Geelong recruit
MARK DUFFIELD
WEST AUSTRALIAN
Wednesday, 28 September 2011 8:42AM

.........The Cats found Cook, who was Eagles CEO from 1990 to 1998, at a time he was looking for a new job after a power play in Perth that saw Trevor Nisbett become CEO."

I have said before , that it is no coincidence that our strongest years were in the 90's with Brian Cook as our CEO , and our decline and Geelong's rise has been as a result of him being deposed as CEO .

This has been evident for some time and will continue for many , many years to come .

You only have to look at Brian Cook's legacy compared with that of Trevor Nisbett to find out why we are in our current situation today .

One man and his loyal band of followers run the eagles. It is why Brian Cook left.
http://m.westcoasteagles.com.au/news/20 ... c-chairman
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby farmer joe on Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:25 pm

Bigbird wrote:How did everyone rate McKenzie's game? He did some good things and I thought overall he was OK defensively. A few shockers in there too...but far from our worst and it gives me hope that maybe he can find something.

He's not best 22. Shadow of what he was and is currently the worst value for $ player in the AFL. Did ok today but so he should being an experienced AFL player on $800k per year. If he gave true value for money we win. I want him off our list.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby Peter_Melesso_Fanclub on Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:10 pm

farmer joe wrote:
Bigbird wrote:How did everyone rate McKenzie's game? He did some good things and I thought overall he was OK defensively. A few shockers in there too...but far from our worst and it gives me hope that maybe he can find something.

He's not best 22. Shadow of what he was and is currently the worst value for $ player in the AFL. Did ok today but so he should being an experienced AFL player on $800k per year. If he gave true value for money we win. I want him off our list.

He can still play a negating role pretty well given the right opponent, but he shits himself and does not know what to do when he has possession of the ball. His hesitant/nervous disposals usually put the next bloke under a lot of pressure.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby MaxyB on Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:51 am

Breaking news - West Coast are about to re-sign (insert name here) to a four year deal.

Master Coach Adam Simpson avidly supported the move, stating "in terms of what we need to challenge for a flag, he ticks all the boxes."

Not that he ticked them himself, but luckily, the board have a guy who does that sort of thing. Coach Simpson added - "The box ticking guy is world class - He makes sure all the boxes are ticked neatly and fills out a polo shirt beautifully"

Asked about (insert name here) ability to impact on a result or fit in with the current game plan, coach Simpson was straight to the point.

"if an Ox pulls a plow for a thousand days, across a land that will never bear fruit, he has done his job. For the Ox, it's not about the fruit, its about the plowing"

Keen observers noted the Ox reference and queried whether or not there was a touch of the old Micky M creeping into coach Simpsons mind set.

"Not at all" he replied. "To go forward, you have to go back. Hug the boundary and defend to attack. If three hand passes going forward are enough, five or six must surely be better".

West Coast remain favorites for the flag. In Perth at least.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby Fat Side on Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:24 am

Total Package wrote:
Mykidsdad wrote:I heard Darling became a father yesterday and that his son came 7 weeks early??? Anyone confirm that? Might explain his poor showing today.


His poor showing is because the coaching staff decided to play him on his own in a key position with 2 defenders hanging off him. The guy is barely above the height of most midfielders... he should not be a key position forward.. he plays best as that 3rd marking forward... a position that LeCras usually takes. He really got hung out to dry today.

I still don't know what the hell Tom Lamb has to do to get a game in the forward line...


The entire forward line looked to lack structure. McGovern starts down back after bringing Mackenzie in. That seemed odd. We often only had Darling as the key forward target so he was attracting several GC key defenders (including May who is difficult to beat by himself). Perhaps they had a plan going forward that didn't include two KPFs. Our first few goals were snaps and didn't appear to be at the end of a planned forward set up. Our backline especially in the first half didn't seem to want to contest against Lynch and they had players free. Midfielders didn't follow their opponents into our forward line.

I thought Petrie was good. He often got first hands on it at centre bounces, took marks around the ground and up forward. He showed he wanted to win. Along with Yeo and Sheed there were few other standouts.

The game was lackluster and I swear I was watching an amateur footy match. Anyway there is plenty of work to do. I think Karpany was stiff and should return next game. Partington has to be worth a shot now. If ever there is a player that has prepared himself and is ready to go, Partington is that. His consistency at EP is excellent so must be worth seeing what he can bring.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby Fat Side on Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:30 am

Bigbird wrote:
Total Package wrote:
Bigbird wrote:I did a write up on my blog about 6 weeks ago and at the time predicted we would finish 10th....but on the back on wins against Essendon, Gold Coast and the Pies would end up 8th.

With all the negativity floating around....one of the key things we can do as supporters is accept where we are at and stop being negative.


It would be nice if the coaching staff coudl accept where we are at... because it is obvious they aren't.

It's blatantly obvious to me that Simpson thinks 2017 is like 2016 where there is no outright favourite and a team like the Bulldogs can catch fire in the last 4 weeks of the year and fluke a flag. Our team selections show him continually going to the well with older players so we can get enough wins now to keep our head above water and finish top 4.

I'm actually glad we lost this game. Our wins this year have as a whole been unimpressive and it was just masking the problems. We are more a 4-6 team than a 6-4 team. I can only hope some hard decisions are made now especially with our midfield. The first one was getting Masten out... the next one is getting Priddis out of there.


You have just echoed the conversation I had post game with my mate in Adelaide. We clearly went in to the season with premiership aspirations - hence the nabbing of Mitchell. It seems the attitude was to be "around and about" until we got NN back...then have a tilt at it.

With even Lycett coming back, we will improve considerably. Let's say we get a more settled line-up.....Lycett helps, Rioli makes an impact, Jetta maintains good form, etc. We somehow jag a home final and save the season. Supporters happy in general, CEO happy, it's another successful year for the team by the overall measuring stick.

If that happens - we will go into next year with the same 22 and just about fall off a cliff. We are on the precipice now. That's why I agree and was hoping we would not get away with a win today. It may be what we need for those in charge to reassess where we are at.

If we do make some big calls over the second half of the season,. we can get some more games into the kids and just maybe have the right blend to have another tilt while the likes of NN and JK are still in the side.


Given the investment and trade strategy last year, anything less than a top 4 spot would be a failure. Club expectations were high. A home final finishing 5-6 isn't good enough. If we need 16 wins to make top four, we can only afford to lose one more game. On that, I can't see us winning enough games to get there. We have GWS and the Bulldogs away yet. We won 16 games each of the past two years.

The coaching group needs to sit down over this break and establish a realistic plan for the remainder of the year. If we can't make to top 4, I think the membership would be satisfied if Partington, Rioli, Venables, Karpany and Watson get a run and show something. Unfortunately that may be all we take from the season.

If we are to make top four, we need to turn this around quickly.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby Fat Side on Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:34 am

Peter_Melesso_Fanclub wrote:
farmer joe wrote:
Bigbird wrote:How did everyone rate McKenzie's game? He did some good things and I thought overall he was OK defensively. A few shockers in there too...but far from our worst and it gives me hope that maybe he can find something.

He's not best 22. Shadow of what he was and is currently the worst value for $ player in the AFL. Did ok today but so he should being an experienced AFL player on $800k per year. If he gave true value for money we win. I want him off our list.

He can still play a negating role pretty well given the right opponent, but he shits himself and does not know what to do when he has possession of the ball. His hesitant/nervous disposals usually put the next bloke under a lot of pressure.


I think Mackenzie is struggling. I don't see a position for him at the WCE. Schofield, Barrass and McGovern are our key backs. We have even played Yeo tall down back to give us sufficient flexibility. All these players are ahead of Mackenzie. I have a lot of respect for Mackenzie and I hate seeing him languish in the WAFL. The best thing for him is to be traded and play regular AFL footy. Barrass should always be picked ahead of him.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby domo_the_eagle on Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:12 am

Fat Side wrote:The coaching group needs to sit down over this break and establish a realistic plan for the remainder of the year. If we can't make to top 4, I think the membership would be satisfied if Partington, Rioli, Venables, Karpany and Watson get a run and show something. Unfortunately that may be all we take from the season.

If we are to make top four, we need to turn this around quickly.


I don't think we are a chance to make top 4, its like this teams holding out for the return of Lycett & Natanui as the midfield group has clearly failed in winning their own ball.

Its hard to mount a defense that the eagles are capable of winning its next 2 games, so surely this forces match committee to look at a mini-rebuild.

Priddis out for Partington,
Lecras out for Roili
Hill out for Karpany
Butler out for Watson
Hutchings out for Venebles
Mitchell out for Redden

I'd even give darling a few weeks off and have lamb as a 3rd tall.

Hutchings has tremendous endeavour and heart, but is an insurance player at best.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby Streaker on Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:38 am

domo_the_eagle wrote:
Fat Side wrote:The coaching group needs to sit down over this break and establish a realistic plan for the remainder of the year. If we can't make to top 4, I think the membership would be satisfied if Partington, Rioli, Venables, Karpany and Watson get a run and show something. Unfortunately that may be all we take from the season.

If we are to make top four, we need to turn this around quickly.


I don't think we are a chance to make top 4, its like this teams holding out for the return of Lycett & Natanui as the midfield group has clearly failed in winning their own ball.

Its hard to mount a defense that the eagles are capable of winning its next 2 games, so surely this forces match committee to look at a mini-rebuild.

Priddis out for Partington,
Lecras out for Roili
Hill out for Karpany
Butler out for Watson
Hutchings out for Venebles
Mitchell out for Redden

I'd even give darling a few weeks off and have lamb as a 3rd tall.

Hutchings has tremendous endeavour and heart, but is an insurance player at best.


Problem seems to be that our players are too one dimensional/positional. If Priddis isn'tt playing midfield then they have him on the bench. Can't play him forward or back as he gets exposed for speed. Butler plays the HBF or on the bench. Redden onball or on the bench. LeCras now too slow for midfield so HFF or on the bench. No versatility in too many players.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby Mykidsdad on Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:23 pm

Official sponsor Wellingham, Watson, Priddis and Hurn for 2017.

I got some work to do.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby Mead on Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:23 pm

Mykidsdad wrote:https://www.facebook.com/TheBellTowerTimes/posts/768807219992515:0

Had to share


Fair call :D

This loss is not the problem- had we won the game by a narrow margin, the same problems would still be there, but people would be more predisposed to gloss over them.

I just can't conceive how anyone in their right mind can be happy with the current 22 being put on the park each week. I can't conceive why people who have been failures for year after year are suddenly going to be able to compete with the best midfields at some point in the future as they get older and slower. The only thing the team is doing at the moment is wasting time until Naitanui comes back, and playing guys who are past it now and will be a long way past it next year- which means when he is back to his best, the rest of the list will be in dire shape.

If there is a slightest intention of being a genuine contender before Naitanui retires we should be freeing up salary cap space now, getting high draft picks now, and getting massive amounts of games into young players now, with a view to being one of the best teams in the league in about 2019-2020 when the GWS juggernaught starts to break up under salary cap pressure. So basically the exact opposite of the approach West Coast have taken this season.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby aquila audax on Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:02 pm

Mead wrote:
Mykidsdad wrote:https://www.facebook.com/TheBellTowerTimes/posts/768807219992515:0

Had to share


...... until Naitanui comes back, and playing guys who are past it now and will be a long way past it next year- which means when he is back to his best .......


That's one big 'if' . That a man whose main attributes were his leap . speed , and agility will ever get back to his best after having had a total knee reconstruction .
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby Fat Side on Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:13 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:
Fat Side wrote:The coaching group needs to sit down over this break and establish a realistic plan for the remainder of the year. If we can't make to top 4, I think the membership would be satisfied if Partington, Rioli, Venables, Karpany and Watson get a run and show something. Unfortunately that may be all we take from the season.

If we are to make top four, we need to turn this around quickly.


I don't think we are a chance to make top 4, its like this teams holding out for the return of Lycett & Natanui as the midfield group has clearly failed in winning their own ball.

Its hard to mount a defense that the eagles are capable of winning its next 2 games, so surely this forces match committee to look at a mini-rebuild.

Priddis out for Partington,
Lecras out for Roili
Hill out for Karpany
Butler out for Watson
Hutchings out for Venebles
Mitchell out for Redden

I'd even give darling a few weeks off and have lamb as a 3rd tall.

Hutchings has tremendous endeavour and heart, but is an insurance player at best.


Hard to disagree with most of that. I think we have the personnel, we just don't have a team that is prepared to work hard and apply pressure. The type of pressure you would expect of a top 4 side.

I am also questioning the coaching group. They have been pretty good, but the plan to replace JK up forward was either a poor one, or poorly executed. We continue to see Mitchell being pushed into the contest at centre bounces (yesterday by Ablett). I am sure it has been discussed with the coach, but we need a plan to free him up. His ball use yesterday was brilliant and he has become very important. We can't have him getting shoved under the ball. Teams are now adopting a handpassing, short kicking approach when going forward. There is a reticence to bomb into the hands of McGovern, Yeo and Barrass. We need a plan to overcome this. That means midfield pressure.

LeCras is terribly out of form. I don't think he's kicked a goal in his past three games. In particular his away form has been woeful (save for the PA game). Karpany I think needs to be given more opportunity. I think Redden is the ready replacement for Priddis. Redden is a big inside body and can bullock through contests, but plays more of a run-with or outside role. I feel Redden is being under-utilised and will shine when he gets the cahnce to do what he does best. We may not see this transition from Priddis to Redden until 2018 (unless we lose the next two games)

Watson and Rioli are not ready (although it will be interesting to see them run around tomorrow) and, if they are given an opportunity we need to allow them to make mistakes and have the odd poor game without calling for their heads. The coaching group may need to give them the opportunities afforded to Duggan and Nelson. Duggan must be persevered with. He has exceptional potential so lets allow him to grow. Nelson is older and plays half back. I think Nelson is excellent. With Rotham, Cole, Gorter etc coming along, I can't see a reason to renew Wellingham's contract. With Hurn, Sheppard and Nelson in the best side we have the opportunity to develop young depth. Nelson is getting the hardness that Wellingham brings.

Hill is okay. He plays a crumbing/outside role perhaps to make way for Rioli eventually. At the moment he's okay. If Venables is to come in, it has to be at the expense of Masten. Venables will need to play a high half forward/midfield role until he gains size and fitness.

Barrass needs to be brought back. No point playing Mackenzie ahead of him. Barrass needs games and he needs to be able to play the occasional bad game without being dropped. He has enormous potential and to lose him would be catastrophic. Butler is probably playing his last season, but our issues seem to be above the shoulders. It's frustrating to watch. This season is not panning out like the club would have liked and there is a shit-load of work to be done. It needs to be done now. Right now.
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Re: Round 11 - WCE v GCS

Postby domo_the_eagle on Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:53 pm

Fat Side wrote:Hard to disagree with most of that. I think we have the personnel, we just don't have a team that is prepared to work hard and apply pressure. The type of pressure you would expect of a top 4 side.


This is why you see me absolutely lose my shit on here during the game. At the moment we are putting the COAST in West Coast Eagles.

Fat Side wrote:LeCras is terribly out of form. I don't think he's kicked a goal in his past three games. In particular his away form has been woeful (save for the PA game). Karpany I think needs to be given more opportunity. I think Redden is the ready replacement for Priddis. Redden is a big inside body and can bullock through contests, but plays more of a run-with or outside role. I feel Redden is being under-utilised and will shine when he gets the cahnce to do what he does best. We may not see this transition from Priddis to Redden until 2018 (unless we lose the next two games)


Based purely on form Lecras has to be dropped to play WAFL. Reality is he should have not travelled on the plane this week. Massive mistake. Absolutely agree about Redden - he needs to be given a chance to play the role he relishes, I've been saying this for a while now.

Fat Side wrote:Duggan must be persevered with. He has exceptional potential so lets allow him to grow.

At the start of the year I was of the same opinion, however I think his development has stalled and his confidence has taken a hit - I cant recall any of his possessions against the suns that wasn't a fumble or a direct turnover . He needs a few games at WAFL level to let his confidence grow and if his form lifts then he can be recalled into the senior team.

Fat Side wrote:Barrass needs to be brought back. No point playing Mackenzie ahead of him. Barrass needs games and he needs to be able to play the occasional bad game without being dropped. He has enormous potential and to lose him would be catastrophic.

I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would say Emac playing ahead of Barass is a good thing. However you would think Barass' omittion may be the coach trying to prove a point to him? possibly about playing his roleand not getting ahead of himself?
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