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Jack Darling

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Re: Jack Darling

Postby Crazy Dazz on Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:14 pm

Total Package wrote:I find it VERY hard to believe Darling copped the shits over a poor review. Even more so considering he himself only a few weeks ago said he had "underachieved" in his career to date and expected more of himself.

Indeed.

Firstly, I don't see him getting a review that was THAT bad. "Constructively Realistic" would be about as bad as it got.
And I don't see him cracking the shits over it.

It could well be that there is some element of truth to rumour (eg another club floating big bickies) but I call horseshit on the reasons suggested.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby Fat Side on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:25 pm

Total Package wrote:I find it VERY hard to believe Darling copped the shits over a poor review. Even more so considering he himself only a few weeks ago said he had "underachieved" in his career to date and expected more of himself.

So it's not exactly like he thought he was playing like Patrick Dangerfield... and expected a great review.


Who knows? Perhaps he was disappointed with his review and Chinese whispers have blown it into something else. It may be the impetus he needs to continue to improve.

Reviews don't just highlight all the negatives, it is about positives as well. Every player's weaknesses should be discussed and a plan put in place to focus on addressing the weaknesses and improving.

Darling is not a tradeable commodity for me. We have put significant development into him and he is approaching the time of his career where he will burst out. He grew up supporting the club. I for one would be extremely disappointed if he was to leave. I can't see it happening.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby penrith eagle on Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:24 pm

Fat Side wrote: is not a tradeable commodity for me. We have put significant development into him and he is approaching the time of his career where he will burst out


Hope so its time for the King of the choke to stand up

We all know he is quality just goes missing in big games
The will to win...we have lost it.......maybe its coming back ??

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Re: Jack Darling

Postby Total Package on Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:48 pm

penrith eagle wrote:
Fat Side wrote: is not a tradeable commodity for me. We have put significant development into him and he is approaching the time of his career where he will burst out


Hope so its time for the King of the choke to stand up

We all know he is quality just goes missing in big games


I actually thought before he squibbed the contest in the last quarter he was one of our best players in the final against the Bulldogs? He was seemingly the only guy that could take a mark... or at least that's how it felt.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby Mead on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:22 pm

I would seriously trade Kennedy before Darling.

Darling has had some bad 'signature' moments which deflate his value but the truth is his numbers are extremely impressive for a forward at his age- his output is actually about on par with JKs at that same age. Nothing in football is certain but based on output to date there is every reason to think Darling will kick on and develop into one of the best forwards in the league when he hits his late twenties. When he's 28 and kicking 70 a year no one is going to be remotely interested in what he did or didn't do in the 2015 grand final.

Now here is where it gets interesting. If you think (as I do) that next year is basically a write off, what value does Kennedy have? Yes he's clearly the better player at the moment, and the best forward in the league by most measures, but he will be 30 by the time we get Naitanui back, and he will start to go downhill a year or so later- at that same time, Darling will be 26 and entering his prime.

Kennedy would have real value to a team who is in its premiership window right now and needs a blue chip full forward. Trading him would
-net a top 5 pick at least
-because of the immediate hit our on field stocks would take, bump us way up next years draft order.
-free up salary cap space to go hard at the free market next off season.
-provide darling with more responsibility and hopefully help him develop more rapidly.

Yes it would make a lot of people grumpy, but in terms of something bold which would revitalise a list which is beginning to age and set the club up for 2018-2020, it would actually make a lot of sense.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby merovingian on Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:27 pm

MrWoollie wrote:
Mr Q wrote:I saw something today which showed how little these ratings are really worth - Josh Kennedy is apparently the fourth best key forward in the country.

You made me go and look.
I can understand that Franklin has a case to be rated higher. Despite playing a lot more up the ground he nearly got him in goals (with more scoring shots) but did get more than 100 extra possessions and a lot more inside 50s (101 to 43), 1 %ers and goal assists.
But Lynch and Westoff! Westoff for fucks sake. 23 goals and bugger all influence all year. Where did his rating points come from?


I agree about Westhoff, but you guys need to get the blue and gold blinkers off in regards to the other two. They are genuine superstars. As good as JK is, he's not at their level.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby Eliot Mess on Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:12 am

penrith eagle wrote:
Fat Side wrote: is not a tradeable commodity for me. We have put significant development into him and he is approaching the time of his career where he will burst out


Hope so its time for the King of the choke to stand up

We all know he is quality just goes missing in big games


Le Cras is the bigger choker, seems.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:02 am

Mead wrote:I would seriously trade Kennedy before Darling.

Darling has had some bad 'signature' moments which deflate his value but the truth is his numbers are extremely impressive for a forward at his age- his output is actually about on par with JKs at that same age. Nothing in football is certain but based on output to date there is every reason to think Darling will kick on and develop into one of the best forwards in the league when he hits his late twenties. When he's 28 and kicking 70 a year no one is going to be remotely interested in what he did or didn't do in the 2015 grand final.

Now here is where it gets interesting. If you think (as I do) that next year is basically a write off, what value does Kennedy have? Yes he's clearly the better player at the moment, and the best forward in the league by most measures, but he will be 30 by the time we get Naitanui back, and he will start to go downhill a year or so later- at that same time, Darling will be 26 and entering his prime.

Kennedy would have real value to a team who is in its premiership window right now and needs a blue chip full forward. Trading him would
-net a top 5 pick at least
-because of the immediate hit our on field stocks would take, bump us way up next years draft order.
-free up salary cap space to go hard at the free market next off season.
-provide darling with more responsibility and hopefully help him develop more rapidly.

Yes it would make a lot of people grumpy, but in terms of something bold which would revitalise a list which is beginning to age and set the club up for 2018-2020, it would actually make a lot of sense.


This is pretty much the "moneyball" approach. Selling off a great player to get you more good players. Which in AFL isn't that bad of an approach considering there are 22 players each week, so it is better to have a team where the difference between the best and worst is minimal, rather than have say 5 bonafide guns and 17 spuds.

Although this usually works better in the US as the players don't have as much of a say in the movements mid contract (so a club could trade a player from one side of the country to the other and the player won't know until the deal is done). Whereas in the AFL the club would need to seek permission from the player to trade him, plus there is a much higher loyalty factor in AFL so it also disturbs the team-mates doing something like this.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby Crazy Dazz on Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:47 pm

Mead wrote:Yes it would make a lot of people grumpy, but in terms of something bold which would revitalise a list which is beginning to age and set the club up for 2018-2020, it would actually make a lot of sense.

Two problems, firstly this is the AFL. In American leagues, players are traded like commodities, even during the season. Teams have entire departments set up to facilitate rapid relocations. But in the AFL, the player is king. He decides where he wants to go, and the club makes the deal. Trying to put somebody on the trade table, when they don't want to leave, is risky and can massively backfire.

Secondly, this is the Eagles, we don't do bold.
We SHOULD be looking at next year as a mini-rebuild. We should trade away JK, Priddis, Lecca, and Masten, ideally Butler too (or hope for some FA compensation.)
Cut the deadwood, and spend the year developing youth and getting better draft picks. Come out swinging in 2018 with NN and a new gameplan.
But we won't. It will be "steady as she goes" and we'll probably still make the finals.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby Streaker on Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:54 pm

WCE Booka 89 wrote:
Mead wrote:I would seriously trade Kennedy before Darling.

Darling has had some bad 'signature' moments which deflate his value but the truth is his numbers are extremely impressive for a forward at his age- his output is actually about on par with JKs at that same age. Nothing in football is certain but based on output to date there is every reason to think Darling will kick on and develop into one of the best forwards in the league when he hits his late twenties. When he's 28 and kicking 70 a year no one is going to be remotely interested in what he did or didn't do in the 2015 grand final.

Now here is where it gets interesting. If you think (as I do) that next year is basically a write off, what value does Kennedy have? Yes he's clearly the better player at the moment, and the best forward in the league by most measures, but he will be 30 by the time we get Naitanui back, and he will start to go downhill a year or so later- at that same time, Darling will be 26 and entering his prime.

Kennedy would have real value to a team who is in its premiership window right now and needs a blue chip full forward. Trading him would
-net a top 5 pick at least
-because of the immediate hit our on field stocks would take, bump us way up next years draft order.
-free up salary cap space to go hard at the free market next off season.
-provide darling with more responsibility and hopefully help him develop more rapidly.

Yes it would make a lot of people grumpy, but in terms of something bold which would revitalise a list which is beginning to age and set the club up for 2018-2020, it would actually make a lot of sense.


This is pretty much the "moneyball" approach. Selling off a great player to get you more good players. Which in AFL isn't that bad of an approach considering there are 22 players each week, so it is better to have a team where the difference between the best and worst is minimal, rather than have say 5 bonafide guns and 17 spuds.

Although this usually works better in the US as the players don't have as much of a say in the movements mid contract (so a club could trade a player from one side of the country to the other and the player won't know until the deal is done). Whereas in the AFL the club would need to seek permission from the player to trade him, plus there is a much higher loyalty factor in AFL so it also disturbs the team-mates doing something like this.


I think I'd be correct in saying we haven't got the software as yet.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-01-24/the-new-moneyball

"For example, if a team finishes sixth or seventh and they think they need two wins to get closer to a premiership, the program can show you the player or players to go and buy who can get those two wins.

"It really allows clubs to take away a lot of the guess work."

The program is being used heavily in contracting decisions as AFL clubs weigh up how much a player is worth. AFL.com.au understands that several clubs see it as a vital step in their list management process.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby Fat Side on Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:24 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:
Mead wrote:Yes it would make a lot of people grumpy, but in terms of something bold which would revitalise a list which is beginning to age and set the club up for 2018-2020, it would actually make a lot of sense.

Two problems, firstly this is the AFL. In American leagues, players are traded like commodities, even during the season. Teams have entire departments set up to facilitate rapid relocations. But in the AFL, the player is king. He decides where he wants to go, and the club makes the deal. Trying to put somebody on the trade table, when they don't want to leave, is risky and can massively backfire.

Secondly, this is the Eagles, we don't do bold.
We SHOULD be looking at next year as a mini-rebuild. We should trade away JK, Priddis, Lecca, and Masten, ideally Butler too (or hope for some FA compensation.)
Cut the deadwood, and spend the year developing youth and getting better draft picks. Come out swinging in 2018 with NN and a new gameplan.
But we won't. It will be "steady as she goes" and we'll probably still make the finals.


Why not trade Naitanui? He won't play next year anyway and would give us huge salary cap relief. We would get a top pick for him (trade to Essendon)
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby domo_the_eagle on Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:58 am

Fat Side wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:
Mead wrote:Yes it would make a lot of people grumpy, but in terms of something bold which would revitalise a list which is beginning to age and set the club up for 2018-2020, it would actually make a lot of sense.

Two problems, firstly this is the AFL. In American leagues, players are traded like commodities, even during the season. Teams have entire departments set up to facilitate rapid relocations. But in the AFL, the player is king. He decides where he wants to go, and the club makes the deal. Trying to put somebody on the trade table, when they don't want to leave, is risky and can massively backfire.

Secondly, this is the Eagles, we don't do bold.
We SHOULD be looking at next year as a mini-rebuild. We should trade away JK, Priddis, Lecca, and Masten, ideally Butler too (or hope for some FA compensation.)
Cut the deadwood, and spend the year developing youth and getting better draft picks. Come out swinging in 2018 with NN and a new gameplan.
But we won't. It will be "steady as she goes" and we'll probably still make the finals.


Why not trade Naitanui? He won't play next year anyway and would give us huge salary cap relief. We would get a top pick for him (trade to Essendon)


Why not do both? We can also trade priddis and shuey.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:20 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:
Mead wrote:Yes it would make a lot of people grumpy, but in terms of something bold which would revitalise a list which is beginning to age and set the club up for 2018-2020, it would actually make a lot of sense.

Two problems, firstly this is the AFL. In American leagues, players are traded like commodities, even during the season. Teams have entire departments set up to facilitate rapid relocations. But in the AFL, the player is king. He decides where he wants to go, and the club makes the deal. Trying to put somebody on the trade table, when they don't want to leave, is risky and can massively backfire.

Secondly, this is the Eagles, we don't do bold.
We SHOULD be looking at next year as a mini-rebuild. We should trade away JK, Priddis, Lecca, and Masten, ideally Butler too (or hope for some FA compensation.)
Cut the deadwood, and spend the year developing youth and getting better draft picks. Come out swinging in 2018 with NN and a new gameplan.
But we won't. It will be "steady as she goes" and we'll probably still make the finals.


Why not trade Naitanui? He won't play next year anyway and would give us huge salary cap relief. We would get a top pick for him (trade to Essendon)


Would he really attract a first round pick though?

If we can get the #1 pick in exchange for Naitanui, I would take it. But if the shoe was on the other foot, I would not want to spend the #1 pick on someone who will be out the entirety of next year and will be almost 28 when he plays his first game for us. Who is injury prone and proven time and again that when he is banged up he has a significant drop in performance. Not to mention there is the risk of him losing his leap advantage. Not to mention all the dead salary cap space due to him not playing for a year.
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:23 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:
Mead wrote:Yes it would make a lot of people grumpy, but in terms of something bold which would revitalise a list which is beginning to age and set the club up for 2018-2020, it would actually make a lot of sense.

Two problems, firstly this is the AFL. In American leagues, players are traded like commodities, even during the season. Teams have entire departments set up to facilitate rapid relocations. But in the AFL, the player is king. He decides where he wants to go, and the club makes the deal. Trying to put somebody on the trade table, when they don't want to leave, is risky and can massively backfire.

Secondly, this is the Eagles, we don't do bold.
We SHOULD be looking at next year as a mini-rebuild. We should trade away JK, Priddis, Lecca, and Masten, ideally Butler too (or hope for some FA compensation.)
Cut the deadwood, and spend the year developing youth and getting better draft picks. Come out swinging in 2018 with NN and a new gameplan.
But we won't. It will be "steady as she goes" and we'll probably still make the finals.


Why not trade Naitanui? He won't play next year anyway and would give us huge salary cap relief. We would get a top pick for him (trade to Essendon)

So, and this is all completely hypothetical anyway, because NN won't be around next year we should look at 2017 as a mini-rebuild, and aim to strike when he returns.
And you propose to augment that strategy by trading away the very player the strategy is built around?
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Re: Jack Darling

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:32 pm

WCE Booka 89 wrote:If we can get the #1 pick in exchange for Naitanui, I would take it. But if the shoe was on the other foot, I would not want to spend the #1 pick on someone who will be out the entirety of next year and will be almost 28 when he plays his first game for us. Who is injury prone and proven time and again that when he is banged up he has a significant drop in performance. Not to mention there is the risk of him losing his leap advantage. Not to mention all the dead salary cap space due to him not playing for a year.


The rationale for trading is that a player is worth more to another team than to us.
This can be expanded to say that those still in their prime in 2017 may well be worth more to a team gunning for the flag, than to us.

Naitanui is worth basically nothing to anybody in 2017.
So we're looking at 2018 and beyond, at which point he's still worth more to us than anybody else.
At the very least NN's value is the same for us as any other team chasing a gun ruckman. But when you look at our average midfield, and the multiplier effect he has, his value goes up. Then you have the huge Marquee value he has to the club.
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