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End of 2017 Clean Out

The list and its future

Moderator: DALBY

Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby domo_the_eagle on Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:02 pm

lazzas wrote:Your not suggesting that the walls have ears are you?


Not these four walls but..

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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby domo_the_eagle on Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:09 pm

WCE Booka 89 wrote:
domo_the_eagle wrote:Knobert Walls adds his two cents. Its no secret he absolutely hates West Coast.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/west-coast/west-coast-should-cull-eight-to-10-players-from-its-list-at-seasons-end-says-robert-walls/news-story/f522f97eb78cd7b51c9ff2c83f9d7d34

Unfortunately you cant present an opposing argument to his opinion based on our performances..
“If I’m Adam Simpson, I get rid of eight or 10 on the list and bring in younger blokes who want to work hard. Certainly look for speed, but look for effort too,” Walls said.
“They’ve got too many players who like to be forward of the ball to get the easy take, the easy receive.”

“They’re not prepared to work hard enough, the Eagles. And as a result they lost a game that, on talent, they should have won.”


Eagles deserve all the bad publicity they are getting at the moment, but this is purely bandwagoning. If you are saying that the team needs to move on 8 to 10 players at season end, you should have the guts to at least name some (and don't take the easy option naming Priddis and Mitchell who are already retiring).

Pointless article just jumping on the bandwagon.


Not sure if this was directed at myself or Walls....im guessing Walls. But if i HAD to move on 8 players excluding those who have confirmed retirement or on the rookie list, they would be:

1. Butler
2. Lecras
3. Schofield
4. Giles
5. Rotham (who is this?)
6. Lamb
7. Hill or Cripps
8. Masten
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby merovingian on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:02 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:Josh Hill Declining


Good list, on the whole.

Pretty sure I'm the only poster not in the "sack Hill" club. I think he played great footy in 2015 and 2016. Not just a flashy game here and there. I think he was in our best 10 players each year. Probably the best two seasons of his career. I'm not sure he's done.

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Darling, OTOH, terminal decline since his foot injury late 2014. Reasons for optimism in the last few weeks. I'm hoping.

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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby Fat Side on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:36 am

domo_the_eagle wrote:
WCE Booka 89 wrote:[
Eagles deserve all the bad publicity they are getting at the moment, but this is purely bandwagoning. If you are saying that the team needs to move on 8 to 10 players at season end, you should have the guts to at least name some (and don't take the easy option naming Priddis and Mitchell who are already retiring).

Pointless article just jumping on the bandwagon.


Not sure if this was directed at myself or Walls....im guessing Walls. But if i HAD to move on 8 players excluding those who have confirmed retirement or on the rookie list, they would be:

1. Butler
2. Lecras
3. Schofield
4. Giles
5. Rotham (who is this?)
6. Lamb
7. Hill or Cripps
8. Masten


Masten, Cripps, Schofield, Giles and Rotham are contracted. Rotham is a first year player taken as our second round pick last year. Only four of the nine can be delisted.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby domo_the_eagle on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:51 am

i was just providing a response to a question. A hypothetical regardless of contract status.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby Fat Side on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:52 am

merovingian wrote:
domo_the_eagle wrote:Josh Hill Declining


Good list, on the whole.

Pretty sure I'm the only poster not in the "sack Hill" club. I think he played great footy in 2015 and 2016. Not just a flashy game here and there. I think he was in our best 10 players each year. Probably the best two seasons of his career. I'm not sure he's done.

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Darling, OTOH, terminal decline since his foot injury late 2014. Reasons for optimism in the last few weeks. I'm hoping.

Image


I'm not in the 'sack Hill' club either, but in fairness you would find most players will have a declining trajectory since 2015. Hill (and other small forwards) are criticised for drifting in and out of games. That is the lot of a small forward. Their impact is dependent on supply and our supply has been ordinary this year.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby Fat Side on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:56 am

domo_the_eagle wrote:i was just providing a response to a question. A hypothetical regardless of contract status.


I think those in danger of being traded/delisted/retire are:

Priddis/Mitchell (already done)
Butler (likely to retire)
Wellingham (although I think he will survive)
Hill
Mackenzie
Lamb
Tunbridge
McInnes
Giles (could retire)
Petrie (could retire)
LeCras (could be traded/FA or retire)
Snadden

That's 13 players.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby domo_the_eagle on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:21 am

Yep, i think those players would be and should be in discussions to delist/move on or pay out their contract if there is one. i.e like giles.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby Mr Q on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:20 am

Fat Side wrote:Petrie (could retire)


Has already signalled he'd like to go around again. As long as it's still on the rookie list, I'd have no problem with that, he's been a good performer this year.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby Pinion King on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:14 am

Mr Q wrote:
Fat Side wrote:Petrie (could retire)


Has already signalled he'd like to go around again. As long as it's still on the rookie list, I'd have no problem with that, he's been a good performer this year.

He has surprised quite a few of us.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby lazzas on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:32 am

Mr Q wrote:
Fat Side wrote:Petrie (could retire)


Has already signalled he'd like to go around again. As long as it's still on the rookie list, I'd have no problem with that, he's been a good performer this year.


Yes I agree Petrie on the Rookie list. He has played well.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby domo_the_eagle on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:37 am

I forgot Petrie brought in as a mature aged rookie. It would make sense for him to be placed back on this list.

Mackenzies fortunes looked to have changed, may be given a 1 year deal.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby Mead on Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:18 am

I think the most important considerations driving a list clean out are opportunity and $$$.

Particularly when you're looking at people who are out of contract now, it's not just about what Hill does or doesn't offer on field, it's that he's probably on about 200k a year more than say Karpany, and that's money which might make the difference between trumping freo in a bidding war for McGovern (of either variety)

Then there is the truth that young players rarely show their true mettle until they are given an opportunity to play a key role- does anyone think Tom Mitchell would have had anything like the year he has had if Hawthorn hadn't shipped out Sam Mitchell and Jordan lewis?

Plus for every older average player who is delisted there is a tiny chance that the late pick who replaces them will turn out to be a hidden gem. More delisting equals more potential chances of finding those.

I remember watching west coast go through this in 02/03 with Merenda, Collica , Taylor, Troy Wilson, Prior, Sierakowksi and co, and honestly even greats like Macintosh, Jako and Peter Matera- some of those guys were still solid contributors up to the very end of their career, but the team didn't take the next step until it got them out of the way.

Basically if you aren't contending and a player has got to a point in their career where there is little chance they will meaningfully improve, and there is a younger cheaper option on the list, you should be going with them.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby domo_the_eagle on Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:43 pm

Mead wrote:I think the most important considerations driving a list clean out are opportunity and $$$.

Particularly when you're looking at people who are out of contract now, it's not just about what Hill does or doesn't offer on field, it's that he's probably on about 200k a year more than say Karpany, and that's money which might make the difference between trumping freo in a bidding war for McGovern (of either variety)

Then there is the truth that young players rarely show their true mettle until they are given an opportunity to play a key role- does anyone think Tom Mitchell would have had anything like the year he has had if Hawthorn hadn't shipped out Sam Mitchell and Jordan lewis?

Plus for every older average player who is delisted there is a tiny chance that the late pick who replaces them will turn out to be a hidden gem. More delisting equals more potential chances of finding those.

I remember watching west coast go through this in 02/03 with Merenda, Collica , Taylor, Troy Wilson, Prior, Sierakowksi and co, and honestly even greats like Macintosh, Jako and Peter Matera- some of those guys were still solid contributors up to the very end of their career, but the team didn't take the next step until it got them out of the way.

Basically if you aren't contending and a player has got to a point in their career where there is little chance they will meaningfully improve, and there is a younger cheaper option on the list, you should be going with them.


I think i agree with this now :lol:

Realistically out of the 22 that played on the weekend these older players could be replaced by younger players...and would we suffer much by way of performance?

MacKenzie
Petrie
Masten
Schofield
Lecras

I didn't realise Cripps was only 25...seriously thought he was 28 or 29.
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Re: End of 2017 Clean Out

Postby Mr Q on Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:49 pm

Mead wrote:Particularly when you're looking at people who are out of contract now, it's not just about what Hill does or doesn't offer on field, it's that he's probably on about 200k a year more than say Karpany, and that's money which might make the difference between trumping freo in a bidding war for McGovern (of either variety)


If it's the only way Hill gets his contract renewed is a pay cut (and no one else is showing any interest), then I don't think that him having been on more money than Karpany would be that relevant - Hill would be offered a lower rate. If it's $200K less or absolutely nothing because that's all that can be offered, then that's that. If some other club shows interest, and Hill wanted to go for the dollars, then it's likely that at his age the result would be the club arranging a trade.

It's certainly not unheard of either for players to take a pay cut to keep a teammate on board. I'm inclined to ignore a money based argument.
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