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2017 Draft

The list and its future

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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Fat Side on Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:51 am

Daddyswing wrote:
moogadah wrote:Give up pick 13 for 25 & 30?

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-trades-2017-west-coasts-firstround-pick-could-be-the-jake-stringer-circuitbreaker/news-story/03a3a0b599bbd27996662463bd15c8b4

Intuitively this feels like a bad idea to me - we are potentially missing out on a gun. Acknowledge the draft is always a bit of a lottery, but is the depth of the draft such that we are likely to pick up a decent mid at 30, or do West Coast not rate who they think might go in the first 13?



Its even worse than that!

Apparently we're prepared to throw in our 2018 1st for the Bulldogs picks 9 and 28 from this year!!

Absolute fucking madness! If this gets done then Rawlings should be sacked!!!


If true that suggests we have a plan for who we want. That would give us picks 9, 13, 28, 32, 50 this year. That allows us to let Hill, Lamb and Wellingham go and replace them through the draft. That gives us a significant advantage if we want Liam Ryan and Tim Kelly. It would almost guarantee both. They're mature players capable of an immediate impact. Given the age of our key forward there is some advantage to it. It still gives us scope to select young talent as well. The alternative is to miss out on one or both of those players, select a young mid and young small forward with years to develop. Sure, we miss a first rounder next year, but our need is more urgent and if the draft goes deep then we'll draft good talent anyway. It seems to be more of a focus on the short to medium term strategy rather than a long term.
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Pinion King on Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:03 am

Fat Side wrote:
Daddyswing wrote:
moogadah wrote:Give up pick 13 for 25 & 30?

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-trades-2017-west-coasts-firstround-pick-could-be-the-jake-stringer-circuitbreaker/news-story/03a3a0b599bbd27996662463bd15c8b4

Intuitively this feels like a bad idea to me - we are potentially missing out on a gun. Acknowledge the draft is always a bit of a lottery, but is the depth of the draft such that we are likely to pick up a decent mid at 30, or do West Coast not rate who they think might go in the first 13?



Its even worse than that!

Apparently we're prepared to throw in our 2018 1st for the Bulldogs picks 9 and 28 from this year!!

Absolute fucking madness! If this gets done then Rawlings should be sacked!!!


If true that suggests we have a plan for who we want. That would give us picks 9, 13, 28, 32, 50 this year. That allows us to let Hill, Lamb and Wellingham go and replace them through the draft. That gives us a significant advantage if we want Liam Ryan and Tim Kelly. It would almost guarantee both. They're mature players capable of an immediate impact. Given the age of our key forward there is some advantage to it. It still gives us scope to select young talent as well. The alternative is to miss out on one or both of those players, select a young mid and young small forward with years to develop. Sure, we miss a first rounder next year, but our need is more urgent and if the draft goes deep then we'll draft good talent anyway. It seems to be more of a focus on the short to medium term strategy rather than a long term.

Yep, our need to rebuild our midfield with young talent is urgent and can't wait a year. I don't want to see us meander through next year playing fringe players because we didn't get what we needed.

I don't think we are looking short term, we are giving ourselves an extra year to develop the players. As I said in another thread we don't do long term rebuilds we aren't going to pick up a couple of players in the draft over the next 4 years to rebuild. We are grabbing them all in one hit.

We have complained in the past that our list management has no balls, lets see if they do.
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby penrith eagle on Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:41 am

Pinion King wrote:There must be something in this draft that we can't see. There are obviously a lot of 2nd round players WCE rate. Also, I guess we get a year's development into players and start moving forward not hanging back waiting.

We must be also comfortable about the depth of next years draft if we are willing to give up our first rounder. We have never been this aggressive with pick trading.

Don't mind pick 9 though.

9, 25, 28, 30, 32. That is not a bad line up.

Really curious to see how this plays out. They said they want to regenerate our list through the draft.



:roll: :roll:

What this is telling me if it goes ahead...is that they believe Gaff is gone next year and we might be able to get a first rounder for him

But seriously giving away a first rounder next year??? ...come on....

I understand the draft is a lottery but this seems extreme to the max
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Pinion King on Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:09 am

penrith eagle wrote: :roll: :roll:

What this is telling me if it goes ahead...is that they believe Gaff is gone next year and we might be able to get a first rounder for him

But seriously giving away a first rounder next year??? ...come on....

I understand the draft is a lottery but this seems extreme to the max

Do we want to sit through 2018 just waiting for the draft so we can see who we get with our first rounder, or do we want to see us doing something now and enjoy watching our team develop?

Also looking at a top 10 pick gives us every chance to find what we are looking for. It would be nice if that Stephenson kid slides. Speedy, exciting, goal kicking, outside mid. Check, check, check, check.

Gives us more options for the 2nd round.
Jack Patruccelle (speedy mid, Cockatoo like)
Brent Daniels (small forward, Caleb Daniel/Ballantyne like)
Gryan Miers (small forward, Dahlhaus like)
James Worpel (mid, Joel Selwood like)
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby penrith eagle on Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:30 am

Pinion King wrote:er, or do we want to see us doing something now and enjoy watching our team develop?


We can still do something now and watch our team develop without giving away our first rounder next year
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Pinion King on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:06 pm

penrith eagle wrote:
Pinion King wrote:er, or do we want to see us doing something now and enjoy watching our team develop?


We can still do something now and watch our team develop without giving away our first rounder next year

Which means we still have to give up our first rounder this year.

13, 32. Two picks.
25, 28, 32. Three picks. No first rounder.
9, 25, 28, 30, 32. Five picks. No 2018 first rounder.
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:06 pm

Fat Side wrote:If true that suggests we have a plan for who we want. That would give us picks 9, 13, 28, 32, 50 this year. That allows us to let Hill, Lamb and Wellingham go and replace them through the draft. That gives us a significant advantage if we want Liam Ryan and Tim Kelly. It would almost guarantee both. They're mature players capable of an immediate impact. Given the age of our key forward there is some advantage to it. It still gives us scope to select young talent as well. The alternative is to miss out on one or both of those players, select a young mid and young small forward with years to develop. Sure, we miss a first rounder next year, but our need is more urgent and if the draft goes deep then we'll draft good talent anyway. It seems to be more of a focus on the short to medium term strategy rather than a long term.


It could be a coach who knows he can't dish up another year of trosh like the one we just had and is looking for a short term fix and bugger the fact he might burn the ability of the club and the next coach to build something next draft. All or nothing; Malthouse and Carlton and Buckley at the woods. Especially given the supposed quality of next years draft. Then again with so many changes it just might be the excuse he needs to justify a contract renewal... Anyway I don't like trading away our future options like we are a piss weak panicked Melbourne club rather than the strong stable Eagles.

Said it before, we should do everything we can to keep Lamb and keep him happy; and play him in the midfield.
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Pinion King on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:29 pm

Fair Bump Play On wrote:
Fat Side wrote:If true that suggests we have a plan for who we want. That would give us picks 9, 13, 28, 32, 50 this year. That allows us to let Hill, Lamb and Wellingham go and replace them through the draft. That gives us a significant advantage if we want Liam Ryan and Tim Kelly. It would almost guarantee both. They're mature players capable of an immediate impact. Given the age of our key forward there is some advantage to it. It still gives us scope to select young talent as well. The alternative is to miss out on one or both of those players, select a young mid and young small forward with years to develop. Sure, we miss a first rounder next year, but our need is more urgent and if the draft goes deep then we'll draft good talent anyway. It seems to be more of a focus on the short to medium term strategy rather than a long term.


It could be a coach who knows he can't dish up another year of trosh like the one we just had and is looking for a short term fix and bugger the fact he might burn the ability of the club and the next coach to build something next draft. All or nothing; Malthouse and Carlton and Buckley at the woods. Especially given the supposed quality of next years draft. Then again with so many changes it just might be the excuse he needs to justify a contract renewal... Anyway I don't like trading away our future options like we are a piss weak panicked Melbourne club rather than the strong stable Eagles.

Said it before, we should do everything we can to keep Lamb and keep him happy; and play him in the midfield.

Don't see how it is a short term fix?

9. 25. 28. 30, 32, 50, 69.

4-5 kids, 2-3 matures.

So by not taking a risk, everyone is happy to see Masten, Wellingham, Hill, LeCras to continue to get games, then complain that they still are because we didn't take a risk or because we have no kids and that our coach should be sacked, followed by floundering around mid table with a bunch of duds instead of regenerating the list and moving forward?

Who's to say next year we can't trade in a first rounder?

Let's do something ballsy and move forward rather than dawdling along and sticking with the status quo.
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:52 pm

Pinion King wrote:Don't see how it is a short term fix?

9. 25. 28. 30, 32, 50, 69.

4-5 kids, 2-3 matures.

So by not taking a risk, everyone is happy to see Masten, Wellingham, Hill, LeCras to continue to get games, then complain that they still are because we didn't take a risk or because we have no kids and that our coach should be sacked, followed by floundering around mid table with a bunch of duds instead of regenerating the list and moving forward?

Who's to say next year we can't trade in a first rounder?

Let's do something ballsy and move forward rather than dawdling along and sticking with the status quo.


If we buy today spending next year’s draft picks and find it doesn't work then we have to live with the ramifications for a long time to come. It will become especially painful if the crop of West Australian players next year has many talented players - as I expect given this years under 18 Championships - who all move either East or to the Dockers because we have no decent picks.

Taking a risk means just that; it might have reward but on the flip side it could seriously hurt you as well. I’m not adverse to risk but is this a good one?
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Pinion King on Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:08 pm

Fair Bump Play On wrote:
Pinion King wrote:Don't see how it is a short term fix?

9. 25. 28. 30, 32, 50, 69.

4-5 kids, 2-3 matures.

So by not taking a risk, everyone is happy to see Masten, Wellingham, Hill, LeCras to continue to get games, then complain that they still are because we didn't take a risk or because we have no kids and that our coach should be sacked, followed by floundering around mid table with a bunch of duds instead of regenerating the list and moving forward?

Who's to say next year we can't trade in a first rounder?

Let's do something ballsy and move forward rather than dawdling along and sticking with the status quo.


If we buy today spending next year’s draft picks and find it doesn't work then we have to live with the ramifications for a long time to come. It will become especially painful if the crop of West Australian players next year has many talented players - as I expect given this years under 18 Championships - who all move either East or to the Dockers because we have no decent picks.

Taking a risk means just that; it might have reward but on the flip side it could seriously hurt you as well. I’m not adverse to risk but is this a good one?

It is only 1, most likely mid first round pick. 1 player does not make a team.

If we only had Judd, who was considered a risky pick. No Cousins, Kerr, Cox would we have had one of the best midfield ever seen? Would we have won a flag?

Anyway, it doesn't matter what we think. Just sit back and see what happens.
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:21 pm

Pinion King wrote:
Fair Bump Play On wrote:
Pinion King wrote:Don't see how it is a short term fix?

9. 25. 28. 30, 32, 50, 69.

4-5 kids, 2-3 matures.

So by not taking a risk, everyone is happy to see Masten, Wellingham, Hill, LeCras to continue to get games, then complain that they still are because we didn't take a risk or because we have no kids and that our coach should be sacked, followed by floundering around mid table with a bunch of duds instead of regenerating the list and moving forward?

Who's to say next year we can't trade in a first rounder?

Let's do something ballsy and move forward rather than dawdling along and sticking with the status quo.


If we buy today spending next year’s draft picks and find it doesn't work then we have to live with the ramifications for a long time to come. It will become especially painful if the crop of West Australian players next year has many talented players - as I expect given this years under 18 Championships - who all move either East or to the Dockers because we have no decent picks.

Taking a risk means just that; it might have reward but on the flip side it could seriously hurt you as well. I’m not adverse to risk but is this a good one?

It is only 1, most likely mid first round pick. 1 player does not make a team.

If we only had Judd, who was considered a risky pick. No Cousins, Kerr, Cox would we have had one of the best midfield ever seen? Would we have won a flag?

Anyway, it doesn't matter what we think. Just sit back and see what happens.


I think the Judd being a risky pick is overrated. Had it not been for his shoulder he would have been a clear number one and was never going to slide that far. And Now you look back and wish his shoulder's had been better so that Luke Hodge might have been a chance to slip to pick three...

Missing out on our first rounder next year might not make or break the team but if we need it then it will kill the hope we all feel this time of year...

OK, I'll sit back.
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Fat Side on Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:00 pm

penrith eagle wrote:
Pinion King wrote:er, or do we want to see us doing something now and enjoy watching our team develop?


We can still do something now and watch our team develop without giving away our first rounder next year


What do you suggest?
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Fat Side on Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:03 pm

Fair Bump Play On wrote:
Fat Side wrote:If true that suggests we have a plan for who we want. That would give us picks 9, 13, 28, 32, 50 this year. That allows us to let Hill, Lamb and Wellingham go and replace them through the draft. That gives us a significant advantage if we want Liam Ryan and Tim Kelly. It would almost guarantee both. They're mature players capable of an immediate impact. Given the age of our key forward there is some advantage to it. It still gives us scope to select young talent as well. The alternative is to miss out on one or both of those players, select a young mid and young small forward with years to develop. Sure, we miss a first rounder next year, but our need is more urgent and if the draft goes deep then we'll draft good talent anyway. It seems to be more of a focus on the short to medium term strategy rather than a long term.


It could be a coach who knows he can't dish up another year of trosh like the one we just had and is looking for a short term fix


So what is it about recruiting Kelly and Ryan (as well as other draft picks) in exchange for our 2018 first selection, that is a 'short term fix'?
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:28 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Fair Bump Play On wrote:
Fat Side wrote:If true that suggests we have a plan for who we want. That would give us picks 9, 13, 28, 32, 50 this year. That allows us to let Hill, Lamb and Wellingham go and replace them through the draft. That gives us a significant advantage if we want Liam Ryan and Tim Kelly. It would almost guarantee both. They're mature players capable of an immediate impact. Given the age of our key forward there is some advantage to it. It still gives us scope to select young talent as well. The alternative is to miss out on one or both of those players, select a young mid and young small forward with years to develop. Sure, we miss a first rounder next year, but our need is more urgent and if the draft goes deep then we'll draft good talent anyway. It seems to be more of a focus on the short to medium term strategy rather than a long term.


It could be a coach who knows he can't dish up another year of trosh like the one we just had and is looking for a short term fix


So what is it about recruiting Kelly and Ryan (as well as other draft picks) in exchange for our 2018 first selection, that is a 'short term fix'?


Um, you do realise that the quoted text in red is your post? So to answer your question maybe you should ask yourself why you wrote "It seems to be more of a focus on the short to medium term strategy rather than a long term."

Do you know what is so amazing about Kelly and Ryan - previously passed on players - that we should be trading away a first round pick for 2018 when it will be packed full of talented West Australians. And yet these amazing players - Kelly and Ryan - are expected to again be available to us late in the draft this year? (By late I mean second round or later) Good stuff if we can get them but lets not trade away next years opportunities.

Imagine we have a new coach this time next year and he comes in to fix the team and we have nothing to rebuild with?
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Re: 2017 Draft

Postby MrWoollie on Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:21 pm

Somewhat funny!

According to afl.com.au the Gibbs to Crows move has hit a snag and may even not happen. Mind you, if I was offered 2 x 1st round picks and a future 2nd rounder for a guy who will be 29 at the start of next season, I'd jump at it. But...

According to Wikipedia the deal is all done.
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