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2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

The list and its future

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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:42 pm

moogadah wrote:On Jeremy McGovern:

I understand that these determinations still apply:

A player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is not one of the top 25 per cent highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service.
The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.
If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.
His club does not have the right to match the presented offer, and the player can move automatically to the new club of his choice.
His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.
-----------------
If a player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is one of the top 25 per cent highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service.
The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.
If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.
His club has the right to match the presented offer.
If the club matches the offer, he may choose to remain with his original club, seek a trade or enter the draft.
If the club does not or can not match the offer, the player can move to the new club of his choice.
His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.
--------
With some high salaried players being retired, I would presume McGovern will now likely fall in the top 25% salaried players, and will therefore fall into the second category?


Interesting.He signed towards the end of 2015, his breakout year. Would be interesting to know what coin he would be on. Would have to think after only one good season and being on the rookie list they would have been able to low ball him, but with how we have gone lately, I wouldn't be surprised if we paid a higher than market price for him (which he has more than lived up to though) so he could end up being on the bubble, maybe some creative list management this year could help push him into that threshold.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby domo_the_eagle on Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:56 am

The AFL needs to introduce pay scales, i don't think players should be offered million dollar contracts based on potential. Players like Scully, Tom Boyd, Tippett etc etc.

Adelaide have the right idea.

i mean, hell even our number 1 highest paid player was based more on marketability.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:08 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:The AFL needs to introduce pay scales, i don't think players should be offered million dollar contracts based on potential. Players like Scully, Tom Boyd, Tippett etc etc.

Adelaide have the right idea.

i mean, hell even our number 1 highest paid player was based more on marketability.


Players are always going to be paid on potential though. No player before their peak is going to be want to be paid based upon what they have achieved. How is it fair on a player heading into their prime to be forced to take a deal that would underpay them just for continuing on their current upwards trend. Also on the reverse why would it be fair on a club to pay a player who is over the hill because of their achievements in years gone by yet they wont be receiving that.

Also would take away from clubs being able to front load or back load a contract so that they could lure in more big name players.

Also for teams on the developing end they would face problems with not being able to pay the league minimum in salary cap if they didn't play young up and coming players at a premium.

If a club wants to pay a player above what they are worth it should be their choice and they can live or die because of it.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby domo_the_eagle on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:08 am

apparently management have warmed up to Emac again and are prepared to offer him a 1 year contract.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby DALBY on Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:25 am

domo_the_eagle wrote:apparently management have warmed up to Emac again and are prepared to offer him a 1 year contract.


I like this mate, he is only 29 and playing with confidence again. I'd love for Matera to be here next year too.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby domo_the_eagle on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:57 pm

DALBY wrote:
domo_the_eagle wrote:apparently management have warmed up to Emac again and are prepared to offer him a 1 year contract.


I like this mate, he is only 29 and playing with confidence again. I'd love for Matera to be here next year too.


Matera would be ok, except he seems really inconsistent. im impartial regarding emac - not fussed if he stays or goes.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:25 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:
DALBY wrote:
domo_the_eagle wrote:apparently management have warmed up to Emac again and are prepared to offer him a 1 year contract.


I like this mate, he is only 29 and playing with confidence again. I'd love for Matera to be here next year too.


Matera would be ok, except he seems really inconsistent. im impartial regarding emac - not fussed if he stays or goes.


It would be good to have another Matera on the list, but as you say, inconsistency is a big issue with him. Plus it doesn't address the real issue we have which is the midfield.

I saw something on facebook last night that seems like an absolute nightmare. A proposal of a 3 way trade between us Adelaide and Carlton. Involved us getting M.Mcgovern, Adelaide getting Gibbs and Carlton getting Gaff. Would be an absolute disaster for us, losing one of our better mids to bolster what is already a huge strength (yes sure it sures up the forward line for the next decade or so, but as proven this year, no point having the tall timber if the supply isn't there)
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby domo_the_eagle on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:22 pm

WCE Booka 89 wrote:I saw something on facebook last night that seems like an absolute nightmare. A proposal of a 3 way trade between us Adelaide and Carlton. Involved us getting M.Mcgovern, Adelaide getting Gibbs and Carlton getting Gaff. Would be an absolute disaster for us, losing one of our better mids to bolster what is already a huge strength (yes sure it sures up the forward line for the next decade or so, but as proven this year, no point having the tall timber if the supply isn't there)


Yep we would be weakening our weakest group if this was to eventuate, Adelaide and Carlton strengthen their midfield while our weak midfield would get weaker. Is McGovern really that good? from what i see he is a decent 3rd tall, not your key forward.

We also have Jake Waterman who seems to be pretty talented and can kick a goal.

In effect we could and should have taken M.McGovern in the draft when we had a chance.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:41 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:
WCE Booka 89 wrote:I saw something on facebook last night that seems like an absolute nightmare. A proposal of a 3 way trade between us Adelaide and Carlton. Involved us getting M.Mcgovern, Adelaide getting Gibbs and Carlton getting Gaff. Would be an absolute disaster for us, losing one of our better mids to bolster what is already a huge strength (yes sure it sures up the forward line for the next decade or so, but as proven this year, no point having the tall timber if the supply isn't there)


Yep we would be weakening our weakest group if this was to eventuate, Adelaide and Carlton strengthen their midfield while our weak midfield would get weaker. Is McGovern really that good? from what i see he is a decent 3rd tall, not your key forward.

We also have Jake Waterman who seems to be pretty talented and can kick a goal.

In effect we could and should have taken M.McGovern in the draft when we had a chance.


Would have cost us a second round pick. For a player that had already been through at least 1 draft and not taken it would have been quite risky. We ended up taking the bigger upside option with Lamb, a young tall who had potential to move into the midfield. In hindsight McGovern is who we should have taken, but at the time its hard to argue with the choice.

As for that 3 way trade, I would be wanting something close to first round sweetener for it to work out, but even then I'd rather not. It's not a trade we need.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Voice of Reason on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:10 pm

Realistically though, Gaff is one of our most tradeable players.

I wouldn't use him for a KPP or similar, but I would for a big-bodied fast midfielder.

However, my preference is nearly always to grow from within and top up (Chick & Stenglein) style for a flag.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:21 pm

Voice of Reason wrote:Realistically though, Gaff is one of our most tradeable players.

I wouldn't use him for a KPP or similar, but I would for a big-bodied fast midfielder.

However, my preference is nearly always to grow from within and top up (Chick & Stenglein) style for a flag.


Agree with this. With our surplus of half back flankers it wouldn't be too difficult to move one onto Gaff's wing if we could trade him for the missing piece in the centre, the downgrade outside would be worth the upgrade inside. But for what would effectively be depth I don't see it as viable. Because who would Mitch McGovern force out? Kennedy? No. Darling? Maybe. The pressure on his spot would be helpful, but again at that cost... no. And i don't even want to contemplate the old 3 tall forwards plus 2 ruckmen approach.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Voice of Reason on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:28 pm

WCE Booka 89 wrote:
Voice of Reason wrote:Realistically though, Gaff is one of our most tradeable players.

I wouldn't use him for a KPP or similar, but I would for a big-bodied fast midfielder.

However, my preference is nearly always to grow from within and top up (Chick & Stenglein) style for a flag.


Agree with this. With our surplus of half back flankers it wouldn't be too difficult to move one onto Gaff's wing if we could trade him for the missing piece in the centre, the downgrade outside would be worth the upgrade inside. But for what would effectively be depth I don't see it as viable. Because who would Mitch McGovern force out? Kennedy? No. Darling? Maybe. The pressure on his spot would be helpful, but again at that cost... no. And i don't even want to contemplate the old 3 tall forwards plus 2 ruckmen approach.


Darling is probably our second most tradeable player (though I wouldn't).

We don't have that many players who would seem on paper to have much tradeable value, which is a worry.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby domo_the_eagle on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:34 pm

Darling wouldnt be woth much...his finals performances would devalue his worth.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby mysterio on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:16 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:
WCE Booka 89 wrote:I saw something on facebook last night that seems like an absolute nightmare. A proposal of a 3 way trade between us Adelaide and Carlton. Involved us getting M.Mcgovern, Adelaide getting Gibbs and Carlton getting Gaff. Would be an absolute disaster for us, losing one of our better mids to bolster what is already a huge strength (yes sure it sures up the forward line for the next decade or so, but as proven this year, no point having the tall timber if the supply isn't there)


Yep we would be weakening our weakest group if this was to eventuate, Adelaide and Carlton strengthen their midfield while our weak midfield would get weaker. Is McGovern really that good? from what i see he is a decent 3rd tall, not your key forward.

We also have Jake Waterman who seems to be pretty talented and can kick a goal.

In effect we could and should have taken M.McGovern in the draft when we had a chance.


Although not West Coast related, the latest ive heard is Fremantle are willing to trade Neale (a SA boy) to Crows to get M. McGovern.
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Re: 2017 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fat Side on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:48 am

WCE Booka 89 wrote:
Voice of Reason wrote:Realistically though, Gaff is one of our most tradeable players.

I wouldn't use him for a KPP or similar, but I would for a big-bodied fast midfielder.

However, my preference is nearly always to grow from within and top up (Chick & Stenglein) style for a flag.


Agree with this. With our surplus of half back flankers it wouldn't be too difficult to move one onto Gaff's wing if we could trade him for the missing piece in the centre, the downgrade outside would be worth the upgrade inside. But for what would effectively be depth I don't see it as viable. Because who would Mitch McGovern force out? Kennedy? No. Darling? Maybe. The pressure on his spot would be helpful, but again at that cost... no. And i don't even want to contemplate the old 3 tall forwards plus 2 ruckmen approach.


We have a plethora of inside mids. The last thing we need to be doing is trading away an elite outside mid for another inside mid. Gaff may not appear to be that effective, but his run and carry, along with his disposal by foot is critical to our team. Gaff is also very durable. He rarely misses a game and is incredibly consistent. He stays.
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